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Author Topic: TC 8 already :)  (Read 4837 times)

Offline pq5190362

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2016, 03:39:01 AM »
4.8.something

4.9 is the new LTS Kernel, see:

https://plus.google.com/+gregkroahhartman/posts/DjCWwSo7kqY

So 4.9 probably would be a better choice. Just saying.

Offline Juanito

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2016, 03:54:06 AM »
Yes, but the toolchains are built, so 4.8.x it is.

Offline curaga

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2017, 08:56:58 AM »
4.9 won't be far enough along, .0 or .1 is not something I want to rely on. It also doesn't matter much what is LTS when the kernel is kept for a release.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline Juanito

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2017, 04:33:57 AM »
comparing the existing:



..to the proposed:



Whilst the proposed is easier to read, the existing is still easily readable for me (I use reading glasses) and, subjectively, looks better than the proposal.

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2017, 07:04:14 AM »
I thought the proposal was only regarding the fading effect not transparency,  fading is most noticeable for folks who use tiled windows.

IMO the existing look is perfect as is and one of the unique traits of tinycore.
I really like the transparency effect and fading helps to find the window in focus.

My vote is no change.

Offline nitram

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2017, 02:36:53 PM »
This is why a neutral grey background was recommended in the orignal proposal. Most users would likely 'subjectively' prefer a grey background against a black/white terminal than the current blue background.

If discussion has shifted to subjective aesthetics, an ascii 'Tiny Core Linux' motd would likely be voted more pleasing than the current 'owl'.

Aterm transparency on limited hardware causes a visible performance hit, this makes default TC and FLWM appear laggy. The recommendation to disable transparency is based on the assumption that performance should trump aesthetics, a defining characteristic of TC.

Regarding Aterm fading, visual threshold was discussed above and everyone's visual threshold is different. The question isn't whether a terminal is readable enough for you or me specifically, rather 'what would make the terminal the most readable for every new user, even those with more severe visual limitations?'

To be clear, the proposed changes are for default, user can change what they want.

Offline hiro

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2017, 04:09:29 PM »
obviously we should choose grey on grey to meet in the middle. it will also mean transparency won't reduce the contrast.

i sometimes use my laptop outside in the sun where max. brightness of my screen is quite low compared to surroundings. that's why i normally try to at least maximize contrast.

but tinycore is no turnkey system, so i don't think it's too much to ask of the individual users/admins to adjust to their personal preference (or need).

Offline nitram

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2017, 06:40:26 PM »
Forgot to mention, good subliminal sales tactic Juanito, cleaner terminal outputs and congruent terminal sizes, displaying pretty Core logo in the 'nice' version :)

In actuality all terminals open to the same default size and FLWM smart places newly opened windows into the corners first, not obscuring the nice Core logo regardless of transparency.

The originally proposed suggestions were meant to be used as a package to provide maximum readability, functionality and performance for all systems while being asthetically pleasing. Not everyone who starts using TC is an expert, it is meant for all potential users to try, therefore not all immediately know how to change defaults. If someone argues no performance hit with transparency, boot up a Pentium III. If someone argues nobody uses this old hardware, i would counter systems like TC are the best for old hardware, last stop before recycling. There is an obvious difference with dimming. If someone argues why all the trouble, defaults need to be set to something so may as well make them efficient and as usable as possible.

I once asked a fellow member why even incremental changes were so difficult, the reply was i need to successfully argue my case and convince the developers. Just digging in and holding up my end, no ill will intended. For the record, the suggested defaults are not all of my preferences, just think they are best defaults for base system. If a developer promised Roberts TC would always be blue or whatever, then of course i would understand. Take care all.

Offline curaga

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2017, 01:49:36 AM »
Robert used to change the bg color every few releases, it's not set in stone. Me, I fall on the "pretty is fine" end, nice screenshots are good PR, and folks can configure their systems how they like.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline nitram

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2017, 02:51:03 PM »
Thanks for feedback. Changing software for the sake of change never made sense but i believe reasonable rationale was provided. Having said that, IMO a TC8 screenshot that's identical to TC5 would be considered neutral PR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Core_Linux

For the record, the proposed change is not ugly, a pleasant, truly generic blank slate 'toolkit' with full functionality and no performance hit:



Nonetheless a decision has been made, thanks for your consideration.

Offline frimical

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2017, 11:03:36 PM »
Hello Everybody and Happy New Year to all of you,

Regarding transparency, the first change I make with each new release is to take it out sytematically.
It's nice to see the TC logo as a kind of 'watermark', but lacking contrast was disturbing.
For me productivity comes before aesthetics ( eventhough it's very important ), and that's the specialty of TC, (my favorite on every machine I use, specially on my PentiumIII _year 2000!_ that I'm sending from this mail ).
Simplicity+Modularity=Freedom. That is the  'core' of TinyCore...

Regards.




Offline frimical

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2017, 11:33:40 PM »
Hello Again,

Regarding Aterm's background & text colors, I created a feature ( that I've never seen anywhere by the way) allowing me to 'automatically' have a different couple of colors, with each lauch of Aterm, always preserving contrast between text and its background, and at the same time differentiating one Aterm window from the other.  I'ts really productive, and aesthetically interesting, can be tailored to each one's taste if needed.

I don't know if this can be a useful idea for TC users too.


Regards,
 

Offline pq5190362

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2017, 07:22:49 AM »
Just saying:

4.9 won't be far enough along, .0 or .1 is not something I want to rely on.

After your comment I was assuming that Tiny Core Linux 8.x must be right around the corner.

But Kernel 4.9 is already at .4 now (4.9.4) and Tiny Core Linux 8.x has not been released yet.

Offline hiro

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2017, 07:27:46 AM »
what's the rush, pq5190362?

Offline pq5190362

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Re: TC 8 already :)
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2017, 07:43:52 AM »
This thread is about 8.x, hiro. So, one would assume that it's okay to discuss 8.x here, hiro.