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Interested journalist with a few questions

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interestedjournalist:
Hi there,

I'm a freelance technical journalist writing a review/overview/brief history of Tiny Core Linux for an online news site. I have a few questions for  the developers/users, if you'd be willing to bear with me:

1. Who are the ideal users of Tiny Core Linux? Developers using the system as a base and "remixing" it for other purposes? General-purpose computing users? Those looking for a "dumb" cloud terminal?

2. I know the system is optimized to be run "live" in RAM but an installation image is also provided. The official e-book seems to discourage installation. But for those who want persistence of data/installed applications, wouldn't installation be ideal? It seems a little... convoluted to try to maintain persistence over "live" sessions if installing Tiny Core would simplify this.

3. How are security updates done? How frequently does the distribution put them out?

4. Roughly how strong/involved would you say the development community is? Do one or more people end up doing the "core" (no pun intended) of the work with a few others contributing as much as they can with the time they have? Are there a number of people who do "one-off" contributions and are not heard from again?

5. What were the main goals and achievements of the 7.0 distribution over the last version of the 6.x series? I see that there is, for example, a newer version of busybox, an updated glibc and a new kernel, but what would you say are the major changes?

6. Once 7.0 comes out, what are the team's goals for the project going forward?

7. Is this forum the best place to participate in Tiny Core's development? Or is there a collaborative source code repository on a site such as GitHub to work with?

8. What type of help does the project most need?


Thanks so much for your patience! Tiny Core Linux is a fascinating Linux distribution.

Take care,
Adam

Misalf:
I'm not too sure what kind of Tiny Core (or Linux) user I am. After getting into Linux just a few years ago, I quickly went away from bloated distros, for different reasons (like hardware, bandwidth, efficiency), in favor of the small ones (Puppy, Slitaz, DSL, ..., TC). I use it for general-purpose computing as well as for learning about Linux in the first place. I always wanted to know what the OS I have installed does, and how to change that. This is actually the main reason for me to use Windows privately the less as I can, since it's UI got less and less intuitive regarding what I used to (this is "there" and this is "there"; nope not anymore). Well, I can do that with pretty much any Linux distro but why shrink it down if I can just add what I need...

Installation would probably be ideal, for a lot of users. However, the design makes it not only possible but efficient to use it in a live session. As I get it, this is/was one of it's main goals. No one is limited to this way though. I guess the wiki evolves much slower than Tiny Core itself and what users (who 'could' edit the wiki accordingly if enough diligence available) do with Tiny Core.

OpenSSL's heartbleed or Bash's shellshock got fixed quite quickly in matter of one or two days or so. Apart from that, I see some packages from Debian stable to be older than several Tiny Core extensions. If users mention security issues and ask for an update of a certain software, I'd claim the admins (if not the extension maintainer) responds rather quickly with an update.

The Core is maintained by the Admins / Devs, but even I have provided patches after they got confirmed to be useful. Also, the Admins do not hesitate to check if a provided patch could lead to improvement like those patches from rather new forum users like me or aswjh, dentonlt, yiyus and nitram in TC6.x. It's a community driven project and the community gets heard if it speaks.

I hope to see performance improvements in graphics once Xorg's Intel/DRM issue gets resolved. q: Other than that, I don't have new hardware to be able to benefit from any compatibility improvements I'm afraid, which I think is probably the main reason to not stick with one old version of a certain software. Newer software versions often get slower rather than faster - or software gets slower faster that hardware. (:

I personally think this forum is the best place to participate in Tiny Core's development. Yes. Otherwise I wouldn't see it.

This project would benefit from any reports about what users do with TC, to improve it's potential, if needed/useful.

Tiny Core Linux is a Tool Kit. (;

Cheers.

curaga:

--- Quote from: interestedjournalist on January 21, 2016, 08:38:05 AM ---1. Who are the ideal users of Tiny Core Linux? Developers using the system as a base and "remixing" it for other purposes? General-purpose computing users? Those looking for a "dumb" cloud terminal?
--- End quote ---

We seem to have a few distinct groups, with the common thread being that they're somewhat experienced Linux users.
- those running old or limited hardware
- those needing appliances/VMs for specific purposes
- those who want to tinker and customize
- and some who are just sick of the software bloat trends

I guess I belong to all four. I can spin a new single-purpose VM in minutes, it'll boot fast and take mere tens of megabytes. It's very useful. When running on old laptops, I go for TC first, and then I run it on some current/powerful hw just because I prefer it over the bigger distros.

Core is not really useful for a newbie wanting a normal desktop experience, like Ubuntu or Mint.


--- Quote ---2. I know the system is optimized to be run "live" in RAM but an installation image is also provided. The official e-book seems to discourage installation. But for those who want persistence of data/installed applications, wouldn't installation be ideal? It seems a little... convoluted to try to maintain persistence over "live" sessions if installing Tiny Core would simplify this.
--- End quote ---

It's a difference in terminology, rather than requiring a live cd/usb every time. If you boot CorePlus, you can start the installer, click a few times, and have a Core install on your HD in under a minute. (Another benefit! Last I installed Ubuntu, it took over 10min, and last I installed Windows, it took 1.5h)

It's one of the strong points of Core than we do not do the traditional "scatter" install, where you have a few thousand files scattered all over the disk. Instead, everything is in a few compressed files, making integrity checks rather easy, and avoiding system rot. Robert coined the term "frugal install" for this.


--- Quote ---3. How are security updates done? How frequently does the distribution put them out?
--- End quote ---

As a small distro comprised of volunteers, we have no special procedures for security. Updates to packages happen when the maintainer sends one in, which is why we don't recommend running TC on internet-facing servers.


--- Quote ---4. Roughly how strong/involved would you say the development community is? Do one or more people end up doing the "core" (no pun intended) of the work with a few others contributing as much as they can with the time they have? Are there a number of people who do "one-off" contributions and are not heard from again?
--- End quote ---

We have a good set of regulars contributing, but it's been on a slow waning trend for a few years now. We do get drive-by contributions too, but usually if someone has found Core useful, they will use it again in the future when a similar situation arises.

Some base devs have retired, and some new ones have come up, but it's clear the community is not at its peak. We're not really doing things any different than we were in the 2.x/3.x timeframe, so perhaps it's just natural decrease in the need for something like this.

This is a bit different on the ARM/rpi platform. There the userbase consists of more inexperienced people, and so bmarkus does comparatively more of the work. With the pi being so slow, it's also cumbersome to compile on it, putting further barriers on contributing there.


--- Quote ---5. What were the main goals and achievements of the 7.0 distribution over the last version of the 6.x series? I see that there is, for example, a newer version of busybox, an updated glibc and a new kernel, but what would you say are the major changes?
--- End quote ---

We have a part embedded target, and so we try to keep the kernel unchanged across a major release. This makes it a lot easier for some users who need custom kernel modules. This then leads to a new major release about yearly, updating the kernel and toolchain to more recent versions, so that more recent hw can be supported. 7.0 was like that, just version updates, no logic changes or new features.

In the time-based vs feature-based sense, major versions are closer to time-based, and minor versions happen whenever bugs are fixed. There hasn't been major feature development for a few major versions now, instead it's been more about polishing, speedups, and general fixes.


--- Quote ---6. Once 7.0 comes out, what are the team's goals for the project going forward?
--- End quote ---

Keep running things for those who need this kind of setup ;)


--- Quote ---7. Is this forum the best place to participate in Tiny Core's development? Or is there a collaborative source code repository on a site such as GitHub to work with?
--- End quote ---

Yes, this forum is the main place. We also have an irc channel on Freenode. The core scripts and programs are tracked in git, but not github or other such site right now, just a local cgit instance. We're open to putting everything on Github or another service, there's just been no pressing need to do so, or much clear advantages.


--- Quote ---8. What type of help does the project most need?

--- End quote ---

Evangelism, I'd say. And for ARM, extension maintainers.

Certainly we have the common need to all open source projects, documentation, which all forum users can contribute to (wiki logins are the same as the forum).

Lee:
Hi interestedjournalist,


--- Quote ---I'm a freelance technical journalist writing a review/overview/brief history of Tiny Core Linux for an online news site. I have a few questions for  the developers/users, if you'd be willing to bear with me:
--- End quote ---

You want to actually -learn- about Tiny Core before writing a review?  Thank you!  It is so frustrating to read reviews written by someone who downloaded Tiny Core, "installed" it and wrote their review without even trying to get the point.


--- Quote ---1. Who are the ideal users of Tiny Core Linux? ...
--- End quote ---

Well, with a few possible exceptions, every Tiny Core user is ideal.    :)    But seriously, each probably has his own reasons for choosing Tiny Core so each should speak for himself.

I am a geek an IT professional / programmer and hobbyist since about 1981.  I was looking for a small,  fast, easily comprehensible distro that let's me have everything -my- way.  I thought of remastering Tiny Core into my own "vanity" distro, but could never really come up with good reason to do so - It's fine just the way it is.

nitram:
Welcome interestedjournalist, i like these types of threads :)

Avid user, occasional contributor, Tiny Core and dCore.


--- Quote from: interestedjournalist on January 21, 2016, 08:38:05 AM ---1. Who are the ideal users of Tiny Core Linux?

--- End quote ---
Enthusiastic users that like to learn, tinker and fully customize a system starting from almost scratch. Appears excited new users that start customizing Tiny Core but don't take the time to read and learn don't stay long. Same with users that expect a similar but lean out-of-the box experience like Ubuntu or Mint without having to exert much effort.


--- Quote ---2. ...The official e-book seems to discourage installation...

--- End quote ---
IIRC the book indicates a 'frugal installation' is actually the most common for Tiny Core, just a different way to *install*. IMO much better and much more modular. Having used only Debian systems previously, those installs can turn into a real mess after a while when experimenting with the system, installing and removing software, etc. Really doesn't happen with a Tiny Core *install*.


--- Quote ---3. How are security updates done? How frequently does the distribution put them out?

--- End quote ---
As mentioned, Tiny Core updates are done on an as needed or as requested basis. Active and advanced users are able to update themselves and many community members assist with extension maintenance. If you have a chance to review dCore, which is a Tiny Core off-shoot, package and security updates are available directly from Debian and Ubuntu repositories. A dCore install can, therefore, be just as secure as any Debian installation. Arguably more secure as it runs leaner, few background processes and daemons, no pre-installed networking software, etc.


--- Quote ---4. Roughly how strong/involved would you say the development community is? Do one or more people end up doing the "core" (no pun intended) of the work with a few others contributing as much as they can with the time they have? Are there a number of people who do "one-off" contributions and are not heard from again?

--- End quote ---
The Tiny Core developers and many regular members are active and helpful, many log in daily to help out.


--- Quote ---5. What were the main goals and achievements of the 7.0 distribution over the last version of the 6.x series? I see that there is, for example, a newer version of busybox, an updated glibc and a new kernel, but what would you say are the major changes?

--- End quote ---
The Tiny Core base appears stable with mostly just bug fixes and some performance tweaks. Development with piCore and dCore appears to be more active.


--- Quote ---6. Once 7.0 comes out, what are the team's goals for the project going forward?

--- End quote ---
Hopefully 'to infinity and beyond' - Buzz Lightyear


--- Quote ---7. Is this forum the best place to participate in Tiny Core's development?

--- End quote ---
Yes.


--- Quote ---8. What type of help does the project most need?

--- End quote ---
Everything - development ideas, patches, bug fixes, testing, submitting extensions, updating wiki, forum assistance...

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