Tiny Core Base > TCB Q&A Forum
Difference between tce (extensions) and other distros' packages?
MX372:
Hello all, relatively new to TCL. I've just finished reading the Corebook, and I have some questions. Keep in mind that I am also relatively new to Linux, but I am pretty computer-literate, so I am what I would call an above-average user. I know what the terminal is and I can follow directions, but I by no means am a CL expert (I'm learning). The CL actually reminds me of using DOS back in the day...... :o
Ok, so TCL uses extensions to load software (applications) from what I gather, and other distros use some form of package management system (for example, apt) to install software, so my questions about this are:
1) how is an extension different from a package?
2) am I limited to the extensions available, or can a new extension be created from an existing package from another distro?
Since TCL runs entirely in RAM, is their any advantage to running it over another distro, or can other distros be made to run entirely in RAM? I guess I'm trying to understand how TCL operates in comparison to other "normal" distros, from a resource-use standpoint. This interests me because I want to run an OS on an older (32 bit) system that uses the least amount of resources needed to accomplish the tasks I need, and I'm trying to decide if TCL is the one to focus on.
The constraints I have on this laptop are that the max RAM is 1GB, the processor is a Pentium M @ 1.1ghz, and it's a non-PAE processor. And this machine will not boot from USB. Currently I'm using LXLE (Lubuntu version) on this machine. I use this computer for:
1. surfing the web with FF (it has wireless)
2. watching YT videos and DVD's (it has a DVD drive)
3. general office tasks (I use Libreoffice currently) with wireless printing/scanning (HP all-in-one)
4. Arduino IDE and python
5. burning the occasional CD/DVD
6. email & FTP
7. pictures and music
My goal is for the OS to be light on resources and run the applications I need to do those things, with an eye towards usability and everything working properly (I don't like buggy software). I would like a system that boots in under 30 seconds, and is responsive. Any suggestions or words of wisdom are appreciated. I like LXLE, it's very polished and everything seems to work almost 100% - every once in a while there is an issue, but for the most part it's stable and functions as expected. There are a few things that don't work yet (function keys, special multimedia keys), and sometimes if I'm multitasking or have multiple browser tabs open it bogs down with 100% CPU usage, but so far I don't seem to have hit the max memory usage yet. I'm sure that the CPU usage is to be expected given what I'm asking this single-core 32-bit CPU to do. Thoughts? And please don't reply with "get a new computer".
Thanks!
gerald_clark:
Well, a good introduction is the book: http://tinycorelinux.net/book.html
along with the other links on the top of the tinycore home page.
Most didtributions install to hard drive and mount their root filesystem on the hard drive.
Packages install to a scattered group of directories on the hard drive.
Core loads the kernel and root filesystem from a drive/flash/CD to RAM.
Extensions are store on the hard drive in the tce directory, but mount to a specific directory in the RAM root filesystem.
Symbolic links are then used to link the mounted extensions to the proper RAM based directories.
The system boots clean every time.
For those with limited RAM ( 512M or less ) the home and opt directories ( which can become quite large ) can be placed on a hard/flash drive.
nitram:
Welcome Hi MX372.
The response from gerald_clark is very good, he's technical.
Long post, lots of queries, will do best to reply to stuff i'm familiar with:
-Corebook very good, search old forum posts, don't forget the wiki
-never hurts to keep learning more CLI
-TC calls them extensions, Debian calls them packages
-extensions are like squashed packages containing the binary plus extras, linked into the base filesystem when loaded
-the advantage is once the extension is deleted, upon reboot no cruft left in the system
-extensions are limited, nothing near close to what Debian provides
...but users are encouraged to create and submit their own to the repository
...and developers provide assistance if requested for additional extensions
-TC philosophy is just use what you need, nothing more, so if nobody needs it it's irrelevant
-dCore allows using packages from Debian or Ubuntu but it's still in very active development
-some simple binaries (eg. minimal dependencies) just work in TC but recompiling for TC is best
-lots of other distros run from RAM
-TC has lots of advantages but it depends what you're looking for:
-tiny installation footprint
-extremely customizable
-most extensions compiled to be extra lean
-extremely easy system backup and restore
-community focused and driven
-more RAM is best, but you can operate on old systems (eg 512MB)
-at boot TC will also look for an existing swap partition to utilize (maybe from other Linux install)
-believe TC can also be setup to utilize a swap file, if no swap partition available
-trying to decide on TC is hard, pros and cons
-if you want to learn more Linux, TC is great
-if you have time/energy you'll never get a more customized install
-if you expect 30,000 software packages available, not so much
-if you prefer window managers, great
-in my experience pretty good for old hardware, always workarounds
-depends on what you mean by 'accomplish the tasks you need'
-your hardware specs are decent
-my system doesn't boot from USB either but if you already have another distro installed:
-create another partition for tinycore extensions
-modify Grub/boot loader to point to TC core.gz and vmlinuz
-software
-Firefox and Flash no problem
-wireless drivers available
-youtube no problem
-VLC works great
-not sure about watching purchased DVDs/codec and stuff
-Libreoffice in repository, leaner stuff too
-not sure about wireless printing, can't see why not, CUPS available
-not sure about Arduino IDE
-python stuff in repository
-flburn and brasero in repository
-claws mail and thunderbird in repository
-pictures, choose from eye of gnome, ephoto, flpicsee, viewnior, xfi, xzgv, probably others
-music no problem (choose from OSS, Alsa, pulse), xmms, VLC, others
-see here: http://tinycorelinux.net/6.x/x86/tcz/
-everything working properly, yes but can take some tweaking, especially with hardware limitations
-if something is buggy, report the issue or recompile for yourself
-boot time is hardware and setup dependent:
-TC boots to CLI prompt before reaching coffee cup
-Xorg vs Xvesa takes more time
-adding lots of software to onboot.lst takes more time
-you get to customize however you want, no distribution developer to dictate how it works
-responsive....oh yes...if you set it up right
-if you already like LXLE then why bother, it's probably much more integrated, depends on what you want
-it's good to max memory, that's what it's there for
-i use 32-bit 800MHz single core, 512MB RAM, i'm happy, most users probably would want more
-bottom line comes down to your expectations, willing to put in the time/effort you won't get a cooler system with TC
-if you just want something that boots, immediately works, tons of software available, expect someone else to polish/integrate/work out bugs, maybe stick with LXLE
-i would never tell you to get a new computer :)
gerald_clark:
If you are already running another Linux on the machine, do as nitram suggests, and create another bootloader paragraph to load vmlinuz and core.gz.
You don't really need to create a new partition, though. Just create a /tce directory on your hard drive.
You can also optionally use the existing /home and /opt directories.
A customary place to put the vmlinuz and core.gz files is in your other Linux's /tce/boot directory.
MX372:
Thanks for the replies everyone.
For the record (I think I stated in my original post), I've already read the Corebook; it didn't answer the question about an extension vs. a package (to my recollection; if I'm wrong, please point me to the chapter I missed). But from the responses, I understand it as such: an extension is a compressed binary file similar to a package in another distro, but not compatible. Other packages can be converted into an extension, but that takes some work. Not sure exactly the process for that or how one would attempt to do it, and I'm interested in that process, so if anyone cares to steer me to some references, then cool.
I happen to actually have 2 of the same laptop (I'm currently modifying one to run a CF card as the boot HDD - successful with that and I had CorePlus 6.3 on it, but right now it has Lubuntu 12.04 so I could benchmark the CF card and some other stuff - and I'm installing a 3 port USB hub inside to be able to run some 32gb USB thumb drives as storage - the CF card is only 4gb, and the original 1.8" HDD was only 40gb. I'm also installing a USB SD card reader as well.), so I can experiment with TCL on one and use LXLE on the other for now. Eventually, if I'm successful with my hardware mods on the first machine I will duplicate on the second one, except I'll put a 128gb thumb drive in the second one. Both machines will have the max RAM supported - 1gb.
So besides the Corebook (and the wiki and forums), is there any other place I can get more detailed info on TCL? Obviously, I can keep googling for stuff too. I don't mind fiddling with configurations and solving problems, it is an opportunity to learn, but of course it's nice when things work out of the box.
I do not know how to recompile software, but willing to learn. Ditto for coding and such. Trying to learn CLI at this time, Linux OS in general. Other than googling for stuff, and reading some books I have either bought or downloaded, not really sure where else good resources are. I suppose I'll have to start looking at the wiki and searching in the forums. I have multiple computers (and projects too!), so sometimes I'm just looking for an answer to a question quickly due to limited time. Mostly I want to learn, and customize my systems to make them the way I want them, not the way someone else thinks they should be. Originally I thought TCL would be a good candidate to allow me to accomplish that. Sounds like it can, I just need to gain more knowledge.
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