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Author Topic: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version  (Read 13502 times)

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2015, 09:18:02 AM »
I forgot to include a screenshot, getting the latest Firefox...


Offline nitram

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2015, 11:03:09 AM »
Both arguments have merit.

// Isn't this the default action of APPS?
Apps defaults to 'OnBoot' but patiently waits for user to press 'Go', providing option to toggle Onboot/OnDemand before install. User also has option via CLI, tce-load -wi vs tce-load -wo.

// I'm thinking that anyone wanting to download or update a commonly used application would want the browser available each time they boot.. am I wrong in that assumption..??
It's also the heaviest application many users have in /optional, so i could see how some would prefer an OnDemand option. Personally, firefox.tcz resides in OnDemand as i want quick boots to compile/test extensions, often use a lighter browser, don't use Firefox every session.

// It's an easy fix but my fear is it would confuse many folks
Maybe clarify. Don't understand how an OnBoot/OnDemand option would be confusing. That's how TC works, user has full control over the install process. In situations like Lee and myself, user wouldn't need to clean up onboot.lst after install.

Just providing feedback, it's your script so you can write how you want :)

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2015, 01:09:53 PM »
Thank you nitram for your interesting view on this subject, here is my view

I'm convinced that majority of new tc users are not entirely familiar with onboot or ondemand usage and simply expect a downloaded application to be installed and loaded on every boot.  similarly most new users are confused when recent changes to their system are not replicated on each and every reboot, clearly this is evident when they haven't grasped the application of persistence.
In my experience and I'm referring back when I was new to TC, I wanted every app downloaded to be installed on every boot up.  If there wasn't a need for an application on every bootup I simply wouldn't download it, or would remove it.  But I'm wiser now and at least know I can choose to download to my local extension store or have it available each reboot or ondemand.

Experienced users like yourself will undoubtedly know the benefits of onboot or ondemand and would setup their boot lists accordingly to taste or system ability.
For example I setup my ondemand and onboot items based on frequently used applications;  my main GoTo applications in onboot and less frequently used applications in ondemand; like this
Code: [Select]
onboot
firefox.tcz

ondemand
firefox-getLatest.tcz
 

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Apps defaults to 'OnBoot' but patiently waits for user to press 'Go', providing option to toggle Onboot/OnDemand before install
or other choices which are unclear to the new user.  when presented with choices they don't yet fully understand new users will always accept the default as being the best choice based on experienced users who developed the menu.   It's hard to see a toggle choice as an argument in opposition of onboot, when onboot is still the preferred default.

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Maybe clarify. Don't understand how an OnBoot/OnDemand option would be confusing
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It's an easy fix but my fear is it would confuse many folks
I remember when new to TC and being confused, if I had downloaded an app to the tcz store and it did not load on the next or successive reboots was my reference..   In those scenarios I came to use "Apps > Load app locally"  way too frequently..   

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User also has option via CLI, tce-load -wi vs tce-load -wo.
How many new tc users are even aware an tce-load cli option exists...??  experienced users have the choice to change / load anyway they want to. 

I could be wrong but I think anyone connected to the internet will want a browser on every boot as their GoTo app (eg firefox not only browses the web but has builtin support to read text files, image files and pdf files and likely more that I haven't discovered yet..).  If anyone has gone to the effort of installing one regardless of which brand, it's most likely their most important app for everything they do on a day to day basis.  so why not have it available on every boot?
You might say that installing via Apps you have the choice??  well I would argue only experienced users know that choice exists, for everybody else (ie the vast majority) the default is onboot.

As an updater to an existing installation; firefox-getLatest could easily be configured to load onboot if an onboot entry existed (actually wouldn't need to do much since the solution already exists).
As an initial installer; firefox-getLatest could easily be configured to download then load on a one-time basis,  leaving it to the user to figure out they have to add firefox to the onboot list to have it appear on a reboot.  (maybe that view is biased but shows exactly what I'm trying to avoid..??)

New users simply want things to work without delving into the mechanics of the system, while experienced users can choose to change the way their system operates as they wish, as usual.

I'm a believer of the "What's right, not who's right concept"  so what's the right thing to do here to respect new users and  experienced users alike..?

perhaps a Poll??
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 01:33:12 PM by coreplayer2 »

Offline yiyus

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2015, 04:37:05 PM »
I have proposed a similar solution before, but I messed up with the formatting so you may have missed it.

You could grep for firefox-getLatest in onboot and ondemand and add the generated extension only to the lists in which getLatest is found. Then, new users will get firefox by default just pressing Ok and it will not get too much in the way of more advanced users.

I can send you a patch if you want.

For an installer extension I am working on (for plan9port), what I am doing is to try to load the generated extension when the installer is loaded and generate it if not present, so that the user just have to install the installer however he wants and it will work as expected.

Offline nitram

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2015, 06:16:34 PM »
// Thank you nitram for your interesting view...
Get that a lot :)

//I'm convinced that majority of new tc users are not entirely familiar with onboot or ondemand usage and simply expect a downloaded application to be installed and loaded on every boot.
If you're convinced then good enough, just keep as is.

My view is different:
  - New users will not likely use your script and will simply install firefox-ESR via Apps
  - By the time they use your script, the user will understand the difference between OnBoot and OnDemand
  - You're only a new user once for a brief period of time, the script will be used regularly (Firefox release cycle) and they might appreciate the option

//...most new users are confused when recent changes to their system are not replicated on each and every reboot, clearly this is evident when they haven't grasped the application of persistence.
OnBoot, OnDemand and persistence are clearly documented (eg wiki, Core book).
It's not your fault if users don't read documentation.
The script could be adjusted to read something like:
    Which version? enter_version_#
    Install (1) OnBoot or (2) OnDemand, inexpereienced users please enter 1 (OnBoot): enter_1_or_2

//How many new tc users are even aware an tce-load cli option exists...??
As above, it's clearly documented.
Apps browser 'OnBoot' is clearly a choicebox dropdown.

// I'm a believer of the "What's right, not who's right concept"  so what's the right thing to do here to respect new users and  experienced users alike..?
Give users a choice, everyone will benefit.
If the OnBoot 'default' is clearly described and OnDemand is an option, why not?

// perhaps a Poll??
  - Might not be fair, new users won't likely vote
  - Can't see why experienced users wouldn't appreciate the option
  - Don't believe this forum supports polls

Stimulating chat. As before, it's your script so however you think is best is the way to go. I appreciate it takes a lot of work to make even minor changes to a script in regards to coding, testing and distributing. Maybe just a non-committed 'to do' review for later?

Offline Lee

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2015, 06:16:04 PM »
Sorry - I was out of touch for couple of days.  Took me all day to read up on the the thread and write (I was trying to do it between tasks at work)...

coreplayer2 said:
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I  assume the one instance where it failed was on tc-4.x ?

Yes - I was only testing on 4.7.7.

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Isn't this the default action of APPS?
Yes, but that doesn't make it right.  :)

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I'm thinking that anyone wanting to download or update a commonly used application would want the browser available each time they boot.
I was thinking that since it is getting "the latest version" of firefox that it would be more commonly used by people just wanting to try out the new version without committing to it as their primary browser.

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am I wrong in that assumption..??
I do regularly find myself on the minority side in matters of opinion.

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If I'm wrong with that assumption, then the philosophy behind Apps is also wrong..?
Yeah - just in the choice of the default value of the button.  I would have made it default to "download and load" instead of "onboot".  I didn't mean to make waves.  I'm certainly capable of editing a file like onboot.lst by hand and I regularly do so - I guess that's why  I'm touchy about things changing it as their default action.

----

Nitram said:
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Just providing feedback, it's your script so you can write how you want :)

Exactly.  I thank you for the effort you have put into this.  I was just sort of hoping the majority of users felt like I do and it was only a matter of nobody bothering to mention it.

----

Coreplayer2 said:
Quote
similarly most new users are confused when recent changes to their system are not replicated on each and every reboot, clearly this is evident when they haven't grasped the application of persistence.

Yeah, I think I remember seeing that come up in the forums once or twice.   ;)

More seriously though, if they aren't going to learn about tce-load, Apps and/or persistence, I can't imagine why they're using Core in the first place.  (Every one beat me up for that - I probably deserve it.)

----

nitram said
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// Thank you nitram for your interesting view...
Get that a lot :)

I usually don't ever type "LOL", but this time I really did.  I get that, too.

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Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2015, 07:17:08 PM »
Thanks for everyone's feedback.   I have revisited the firefox-getLatest extension and have modified it's script to address these concerns.   This took quite a while because the options provided so many conditions and of course all needed to be tested...

1. I mistakenly saw ftp. as a shortcut for the protocol in the test for latest version address, it wasn't...   so have fixed this for users of busybox wget in tc-4.x   (I tested only in TC5.x & TC6.x)
2. I have changed the install logic so that firefox.tcz is only added to the current onboot.lst if a previous version (ie: firefox-official or firefox-ESR) was already installed in that onboot.lst (supporting personal onboot.lst's)
3. If updating an older version of firefox.tcz there will be no change in onboot or ondemand status, all updates are handled via TC extension upgrade procedure occurring the next reboot.
4. If firefox.tcz in not discovered in an onboot.lst then users will be advised (reminded of this fact) before the script prompts to quit.
5. Old or depreciated Firefox extensions (ie: firefox-official.tcz firefox-ESR.tcz) will be scheduled for removal via the usual tce-audit during a subsequent reboot.
6. Any condition which require users to be advised (ie: uninstalling old Firefox versions, or advised to reboot to complete upgrade, etc. etc..)  then the script prompts the user to exit allowing time to read any notes before quitting.
 
I think we got this covered :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 07:20:22 PM by coreplayer2 »

Offline nitram

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2015, 08:51:27 PM »
Thanks for your hard work coreplayer2. Received your message and will test drive later tonight. On behalf of all TC users who would prefer the OnDemand option - thank-you :)

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2015, 02:15:24 PM »
Oct 23rd 2015 Update..

I've updated the firefox-getLatest extension to help acquire latest available firefox version, to accommodate Mozilla's recently updated directory structure and web site previously used to obtain the latest release.

Also added some other minor improvements, for example a better "firefox-getLatest.sh -h" menu description of how to obtain beta versions.  Also improved connection tests, since the repo had a temporary issue this week

Attached is the updated script from the extension update submitted today



Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2015, 05:33:25 PM »
OK, to avoid conflicts with future Lang variations I made a minor change to the script.  Unfortunately this didn't work out so well for our German friends

So I'll modify the extension to reflect the current language directory status for de users and others, meanwhile I've attached a temporary modified script for those requiring DE language version.

 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 05:36:59 PM by coreplayer2 »

Offline Misalf

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2015, 12:16:56 AM »
Sorry if I drop my two cents here without actually knowing what the problem is about LANG=de (and variants) - I'm not asking; I trust you coreplayer2. However, I'm hoping that  kmaps  will be left out of the equation? As I'm using German keyboard layout but English language (default LANG=C).
Download a copy and keep it handy: Core book ;)

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2015, 07:02:27 AM »
Quote
I'm hoping that  kmaps will be left out of the equation?
Yes, the script uses only the $LANG variable


Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2015, 06:22:00 PM »
Firefox Update v42.0

latest script (attached below) has been updated to fix the change in Mozilla's latest directory structure
extension update will be submitted tomorrow

In this grabber screenshot Firefox v42.0 in German language is being downloaded and packaged for tinycore


« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 06:46:38 PM by coreplayer2 »

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2015, 07:02:28 PM »
Hello Firefox fans

Updated extension firefox-getLatest.tcz now posted to repo

Use the above extension to get the latest Firefox v42.0

Offline raj

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Re: Firefox - Extension to install the latest version
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2015, 06:50:23 AM »
Hi coreplayer2,

>> Updated extension firefox-getLatest.tcz now posted to repo
Neither firefox-getLatest.tcz nor firefox-getLatest.sh work anymore.  I managed to get it working last week but on new Tiny Core 6.4.1 is doesn't work!  I suspect Mozilla have changed their web-site location.

Thanks in advance for help.

Best regards,
raj