WelcomeWelcome | FAQFAQ | DownloadsDownloads | WikiWiki

Author Topic: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?  (Read 40595 times)

Offline hiro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2020, 06:22:57 AM »
seriously, you specially created a new account just for this junk?
at least it's not some markov chain, that would make more sense.

still coming back to tinycorelinux all the time, bec. i keep on using my good old mydata.tgz everywhere, and no other OS is so easy to use without installation.

been doing some alpine stuff bec. of hipster container stuff.
somebody should probably take tinycorelinux and add musl and alpine packages to it. i always miss tinycorelinux when on alpine :(

i hate that all OS's now have bigger and bigger system layer in between userland and kernel when most frequently all i want is to run one command in one shell script (esp. on containers). and that's what i can do easily with /opt/bootlocal in mydata.tgz.

tinycorelinux is the minimum linux userland that still can support everything i need to easily customize my own system layer.

Offline aneverydayhumanuser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2020, 06:29:27 AM »
You are either trolling or you never read the documentation.

There is no easy to understand guide to install specific programs that aren't present in the official repo.

In fact, that's exactly one of the problems that happened with damn small linux. An "elite" group of people were the one creating the extensions in the official repos and once they were gone, It was all over and most of the common people didn't know how to create extensions.

No simple documentation to customize the UI.

No simple documentation to support your hardware.

There is no documentation to do REAL everyday stuff!!!!

Offline Rich

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10295
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2020, 06:45:15 AM »
Hi aneverydayhumanuser
Welcome to the forum.

You are right, it takes some work to get Tinycore to where you want it. It is not a turnkey system. It is a small distro that
doesn't have the kind of manpower of Debian or other larger distros to support it. It is all volunteer based. As a result, it
also relies on member contributions for extensions and to provide help to other newcomers.

Information on how extensions are created, among other subjects, can be found here:
https://www.linuxsecrets.com/tinycorelinux-wiki/wiki:start.html

There is also a very fine book available here:
http://tinycorelinux.net/corebook.pdf

Offline curaga

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10694
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2020, 09:28:32 AM »
TC (or DSL) aren't really aimed at users new to computers. You would be better served by another distro.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline PDP-8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2020, 12:42:47 PM »
..humanuser...

I can't resist because it's so over the top to think that TC should be productized to your needs, and demand hand-holding.  Like they somehow "owe" you something?

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is change your outlook and become a nerd.  Nothing to be ashamed of. :)  Or just seek out something else that meets your needs.

Here's the original document from the "Elite Group" that brought all of this fun to us in the first place.  People went absolutely bat-crazy over it's simplicity.

Ken and Dennis kind of hand-hold the audience step-by-step over what it's all about:

http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/cs99s/papers/ritchie-thompson-unix-time-sharing-system.pdf

Towards the end, you'll see some really impressive uptimes!  Yet they plowed ahead.

Start here.  OR boot microcore, do NOT go online, and actually learn what you can do with all that the devs of TC have enabled.

Check it out: a 3rd-edition of "How Linux Works" by Brian Ward is due out later this year, however the 2nd edition from 2015 is still quite relevant.

LEARNing something is soooo much more satisfying that just going down a checklist based on the work of others.

.. I mean c'mon man, you asked for it. :) :)





That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline Greg Erskine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 373
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2020, 04:26:53 PM »
There is no easy to understand guide to install specific programs that aren't present in the official repo.

I wouldn't expect compiling a program and making an TC extension to be task for "an everyday human user". It's one of those tasks that if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it IMHO.

People need to understand *their* requirements  and pick a solution that matches.

With so many great options available, isn't it a matter of just moving on the the next one. You can even pay for a turnkey solution and pay for support if that is more suitable. If "time is money" it can work out the right solution for you.

Offline aneverydayhumanuser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2020, 03:23:46 AM »
..humanuser...

I can't resist because it's so over the top to think that TC should be productized to your needs, and demand hand-holding.  Like they somehow "owe" you something?

TC doesn't owe me anything and I don't owe anything by using it either.
However, If a software works properly, It should definitely do what It advertise to do (in this case, allowing me to use my computer).

..humanuser...

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is change your outlook and become a nerd.  Nothing to be ashamed of. :)  Or just seek out something else that meets your needs.
LEARNing something is soooo much more satisfying that just going down a checklist based on the work of others.

.. I mean c'mon man, you asked for it. :) :)

I may look into this again later, thank you for the links, but right now I don't feel like tinkering around to have something working, when I can use things that work out-of-the-box.

Most people don't have the ability, time or even want to read documentation, just to have an OS working where other OS work out-of-the-box.
But fair point.

I wouldn't expect compiling a program and making an TC extension to be task for "an everyday human user". It's one of those tasks that if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it IMHO.

Installing apps that aren't present in the official repo is definitely something that most humans need, because the official repo lacks way too many good apps.

Offline hiro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2020, 04:09:21 AM »
have you never realised:

software never works (everybody knows that)
the big pathetic error of IT nerds: you help the computer, yet the computer doesn't help you.

Offline PDP-8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2020, 04:30:02 AM »
Ok, since you've been around since the DSL days, you should know the ropes about what it's about.

Have you looked into dCore, which instead of relying on dev AND user contributions for programs like TCE, it relies upon Debian / Ubuntu packages, which get downloaded and converted into "SCE"'s?  It might be for this very reason that relying on a major distro repository frees up the dev to improve dCore itself, instead of hand-holding users building endless games taking time away from the main project.

So do you want TC to support all the package formats out there, in addition to every appimage, flatpak, snaps etc etc - making TC some sort of universal app-store.  Or are you talking debs and rpm conversions only?  Or are you willing to compile from source, and turn those into tcz's, which are simply not plug n play unless you hit the command line.  Sorry, but 5 year olds need not apply for tcz's.

Have you considered that the devs and user contributed tcz's could be a major security risk, since we are not security experts?  How do you know that the Terminus-font.tcz package I submitted is not a rootkit?  Something to think about.

Seriously - since you are a dsl user, have you looked into dCore?  What about Puppy?  Knoppix?  Any other system that will already do what you ask?

At times I just don't get the idea from some who want to turn TC into something it is not.  Is it an agenda?  Or just a simple misunderstanding about what TC is all about, when other systems that do what they want are already at hand?

It's enough to drive a guy to fully appreciate the no-nonsense ethos of OpenBSD (of which I admire too) that don't waste time in forums whatsoever. :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 04:33:53 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline jazzbiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 645
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2020, 06:47:05 AM »
Hi, PDP-8!

Wonderful article on UNIX, thanks a lot! Just like ancient saga, fairy tale!
"UNIX can run on hardware costing as little as 40,000$"
"UNIX occupies 42K bytes"
"The PDP-11 has a 1M fixed-head disk"

Was this written about something produced by our civilization?  No, probably this is space invaders epos, dropped accidentally out the UFO window.

Cheers!

Offline PDP-8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
Re: why do you leave TinyCoreLinux and where do u go after?
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2020, 03:47:46 PM »
Yeah, that paper was the shot heard around the world!

Using mixed-metaphors, imagine us working in some other comp center and coming across it  ...  we'd be babbling in disbelief ...

"Check it out - it only crashes every other day and one run was up for 2 weeks!

We take uptime for granted these days - back then when you got a mini and placed it up against only ONE wall of a room, uptime for more than a week was rare before having to reboot.  And when you bought a mini, you also bought into a service-contract for a team to come and swap boards, fix dying chips, etc on a regular basis.  You had to.  Imagine if years later when you bought an IBM PC, you also had some techs knocking at your door every 2 weeks to keep it running!

"Hey, these guys are doing system programming a high-level language called C.  WHAT?  No more assembly?  You gotta be kidding.  Can't be done."

"Check out that pipe | mechanism.  Redirection <> is pretty standard, but check that pipe out!"

"What do you mean you can treat external devices like files?  No vendor o/s specific language to manage our files and send/retrieve them from devices?  Are you telling me that to print my listings, all I have to do is

cat mythesis > /dev/lpt

Dude, what sorcery is this??? "

Nearly everybody knows about the introduction of unix pipes, but "everything is a file" including things like printers, just exploded your head.

Professor Bob Fabry at Berkeley got wind of this, and immediately brought V4 back to their comp center.  Makes sense - Berkeley was Ken's alma-mater, where presumably he was playing with the BTS timesharing system many years before.  Well before the "BSD" days.

At this time, MIT and GE/Honeywell, with ATT out of the picture, the rest of the team were trying to work the bugs out of MULTICS and were progressing well.  And of course Richard Stallman was working on the ITS timesharing system, also at MIT - programmed in assembly of course, in the AI department of MIT on big-iron like the PDP-10, unlike ATT's "rasberry-pi pdp-11's".  ITS being a counter-revolutionary reaction to the Arpa-funded CTSS > Multics project, where ITS was left to the AI hackers to do what they pleased without any commercial / government oversight.

Easily forgotten is Gary Kildall working on CP/M for MICROprocessors at this time.  Got it to work, but using paper-tape punch and mechanical teletypes made it far less useful for common consumers.  He was trying to figure out how to rattle the disks of the recently introduced 8-inch floppy, where CP/M makes more sense for the 70's consumers.

A ground-breaking time man.  That sense of wonder and learning is what keeps me involved with TinyCore today - it seems to espouse some of the same spirit.

Unfortunately, like back then, many view computers as simple app launchers "dude, how do I get super-mario-brothers to play?"  Sigh. :)

That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth