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Author Topic: [SOLVED] SCM dependencies RAM question  (Read 3431 times)

aus9

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[SOLVED] SCM dependencies RAM question
« on: April 04, 2013, 07:11:42 PM »
Hi
Let me see if I have got this bit, scms are not allowed to have many dependencies except

Quote
python2.7.scm, python3.2.scm, gtk2.scm, gtk3.scm, qt4.scm (if and when it materializes).  (and maybe perl)

a) Pretend the user has a low spec machine, I have 2G of RAM so its not me altho I admit to being low species (joke)
b) user loads (if available)  apps 1 and 2 where both apps 1 and 2 enclose the exact same dependency

I am guessing that doing so, -----  means the low spec user has more RAM used than loading (if available) the TCZ similar feature packages because the tczs would use shared libs etc.

Do you agree to this theory?

I was thinking of attempting to build one or more scms, but no longer sure what the benefit is.

Feel free to correct my thinking.

Originally I thought it was a good design for low spec users to free up RAM. I am now thinking they would have to have a crystal ball to guess if a certain package might lock up their machines.

(2) Maybe the downstream maintainer, if you think it helps, would offer in the info file, an estimate of RAM used
by measuring RAM used before and after loading having  the terminal already loaded etc.

thanks for reading

« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:50:21 PM by aus9 »

Offline althalus

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 09:08:44 PM »
I'm hardly an expert on our SCM system, but my thoughts to your questions...

the low spec user has more RAM used than loading (if available) the TCZ similar feature packages because the tczs would use shared libs etc.
I would assume, unless you are VERY constrained for RAM, that this would only be a concern if you were using SCMs with copy2fs.flg or similar. Also, more space is used on the disk.
Quote
I was thinking of attempting to build one or more scms, but no longer sure what the benefit is.
The most obvious benefit that I can see, is avoiding dependency hell:
1) App a needs app c version 1.2.x, App b needs app c version 1.5.x, and the two versions of app c usually can't live side by side.
2) Download a single file. Everything needed to run the application is now installed. As long as that one file's check sum is good, all dependency concerns (with a few limited exceptions) are solved.

aus9

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 11:04:05 PM »
HI althalus

I did not mention hard drive space, but Jason W in his post already says DU is higher for scms.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,12457.msg67531.html#msg67531 and lower use for the "same" app
---meaning if it exists as a scm and tcz, then the tcz is higher RAM cost.   (All Factors Being Equal)

2) I am concerned with a person running a number of apps in scm mode, that just happen to have one or more SHARED dependencies but as we not allowed to have tcz style dependencies......nor am I asking for that feature......just an observation......I am trying to see if others agree THAT
in this scenario we have duplication of RAM and so the scm user is likely to have more RAM used

Obviously if they can avoid loading scms that have duplicate dependencies we agree I am an idiot. But I already know that, so I am your local village idiot, a higher level of idiocy than your local gnome type.

3) Nor did I think about doing any copy to file system.

So,.....maybe those with low specs and who use scms might reply if they see my point?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 11:06:26 PM by aus9 »

Offline curaga

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 05:34:14 AM »
The added use of RAM due to duplicated libs only comes to effect when running more than one scm app at the same time; merely having them loaded won't cause it.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

aus9

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 05:46:11 AM »
good that is what I was hoping.

So would be prudent to ask maintainers to submit an estimate of RAM use?

Offline gerald_clark

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 06:25:20 AM »
Ram usage is often more influenced by the user than the program.

Offline tinypoodle

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 06:42:39 AM »
Ram usage is often more influenced by the user than the program.

That could be extended to CPU and storage space usage at least to a certain degree as well, IMHO.
"Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster." Niklaus Wirth - A Plea for Lean Software (1995)

Offline gerald_clark

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 06:46:51 AM »
True, making it difficult to have the scm maintainer estimate the RAM usage.

aus9

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Re: SCM dependencies RAM question
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 03:50:01 PM »
I think this is now exhausted marking as solved