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Author Topic: booting tcl  (Read 3599 times)

Offline cast-fish

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booting tcl
« on: August 24, 2011, 12:19:44 PM »
Hello

is tcl capable of this feature below?

Detect loop bootable isos (in /boot-isos or /boot/boot-isos/)

Many GNU/Linux liveCD distributions support loop booting from an iso file, that is you can boot from the iso file without needing to burn it to a CD. This option will search all partitions for either a directory /boot-isos/ or /boot/boot-isos/. It will then find all of the .iso files within those directories and create a menu to choose among them. Not all iso files can be loop booted, as the live distribution itself needs to support this. Each live distribution has its own quirks when it comes to loop booting and needs to be treated specially (unless they ship a Loopback.cfg).


thanks

V.

Offline gerald_clark

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 01:48:13 PM »
Sounds more like a boot loader issue than a TCL issue.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 02:34:04 PM »
Hello

that clipping above in Blue  is from the "super grub 2" tool website.

is tcl capable of that feature?

V.


Offline floppy

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 07:31:53 AM »
is tcl capable of that feature?

It seems there is an extension for installing it
============
Title:          grub2.tcz
Description:    The GNU GRand Unified Bootloader
Version:        1.99
Author:         Yoshinori K. Okuji, Jeroen Dekkers, Marco Gerards,
      Omniflux, Vincent Pelletier, Hollis Blanchard,
      Tomas Ebenlendr, Guillem Jover, Vesa Jaaskelainen
Original-site:  www.gnu.org/software/grub/
Copying-policy: GPL
Size:      1.5M
Extension_by:   Jason W
Comments:       This extension is PPI compatible.
      Be sure to not have any other versions of grub
      installed when using this one.
      For a basic usage, install this package and then
      issue this command if your boot device is /dev/hda
      and your boot directory is /mnt/hda2/boot:   
      ------
      sudo grub-install --no-floppy --root-directory=/mnt/hda2 /dev/hda
      ------
      Then create a basic config file in /mnt/hda2/boot/grub/
      named grub.cfg. Below is one that would work with the above
      scenario assuming you have bzImage and tinycore.gz located
      in /mnt/hda2/boot:
      ------
      ##begin file
      menuentry "Tinycore 3" {
      linux /boot/bzImage quiet home=hda2 showapps
      initrd /boot/tinycore.gz
      }
      ##end file
      ------
      Refer to grub2 documentation for a more elaborate stetup
      or how to multiboot other OS's.  Also, a wiki page
      is located at http://wiki.tinycorelinux.com/gfx.
      There is presently no automatic grub setup as the
      grub binaries need the / directory mounted to a device
      to work.  So manual grub.cfg creation is necessary at
      this time.
      ------
Change-log:     --------
      2010/07/03 First version 1.98
Current:   2011/05/22 Update to 1.99

============

Look at http://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/wiki:grub2_from_grub1
(I never has done it).
Good luck.
AMD K6-IIIATZ 550MHz MB DFI K6xv3/+66
P4 HP DC7100 3GB 3GHz
Samsung NC10 boot from SD card port (via USB reader)
.. all TinyCore proofed

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 09:56:09 AM »
Hello,

uh, yes

Thanks a lot. It interests me and could be experimented with in a virtual machine.

There is also this link

http://www.supergrubdisk.org/wiki/Loopback.cfg

V.

Offline floppy

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 11:32:48 AM »
http://www.supergrubdisk.org/wiki/Loopback.cfg
could be good for testing linux distro on my old computer for avoiding starting qemu.
Is there any other reason for upgrading to grub2 and using the loopback.cfg?
(in the remaining time, I will keep viewing other linux distros on my wife ASUS laptop 3GBRAM bicore, with "qemu")
AMD K6-IIIATZ 550MHz MB DFI K6xv3/+66
P4 HP DC7100 3GB 3GHz
Samsung NC10 boot from SD card port (via USB reader)
.. all TinyCore proofed

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 01:01:08 PM »
Hello,

To be honest it interests me but is  technically over my head.

I was hoping the reason behind the loopback.cfg thing was simply
that you didn't need to burn CD discs and also spin up optical
drives and what have you.

indeed, that appears to be the exact reason for it's existence. It's a good
enough reason really. CD discs are problematic sometimes. But the loopback.cfg
thing is by no means as simple as burning a CD. You achieve the same end result
of a booted live linux distro on a machine via the "loopback.cfg" method...... but it's not
as simple as burning a CD.

People must just make CD's and not bother with this stuff. But also, it means you
can boot Linux distros without needing a CD drive. (my reason is just to avoid burning
discs)

I will take another look at it.

Shame it's not explained explicitly *how* to do what the looping tool is designed to achieve.
To get A booted Linux distro from an .iso file sitting on a hard drive.

It's not really clear if they are saying that the original .iso file of the Linux distro must
have this loopback.cfg mechanism already wrapped up into in some way?  It's vague.

The fact that Ubuntu and Debian fully support it makes me think this topic is worthy
and this thread. But you see, they are listing Distro's that support it. Meaning the actual
.iso file of those distros has had the loopback.cfg mechanism energized ready.

V.

V.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 01:55:59 PM »
Hello

yes, it's a funny old artical is that page about loopback.cfg.

The very first words are  "Most live CD linux distros allow you to boot them from a hard drive as a standalone
.iso file" either manually or with tools such as grub's  loopback.cfg....etc

Then at the end of the article..... it just lists 3 Linux distros that support the above type of booting...?  (support loopback.cfg) and not even those distros are traditional LIVE linux CD distros?  (Ubuntuyetc)

strange.

I think the answer is that you must load Grub2 into TCL and then energize the "loopback.cfg" mechanism
then remaster the iso file. Then do the further work with the grub2 tool and the machine in question

V.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2011, 02:22:13 PM »
Hello

Found the answers to my earlier questions.

This below...is how you achieve the purpose usage of the feature called  "loopback.cfg"

It even lists Tinycore Linux in the bootable linux distros. So this idea must work.

http://www.panticz.de/MultiBootUSB

They are using a PEN DRIVE to do the task.

So the computer in question first boots into the pen drive and then you are offered a menu
of Linux distros to boot into. Those distro's are just .iso files are on that same pen drive. (i think)

Say 10 different Linux distro's.....all as .iso files. (Ubuntu, Tinycore, Slitaz, Debian....etc)

The instructions are explicit. It shows that this idea works with tinycore .iso............ already.

you could experiment with this because you are not putting Grub anywhere near your hard drive.


V.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2011, 02:24:44 PM »

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 02:29:58 PM »
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

this is the custom tool that actually does the task that i am trying to achieve.

I wanted multiple Linux distros all on the same computer and the ability to boot into
any of them at will.

Well these are on a pen drive....but i imagine it's easy to do it on a hard drive.
Although pen drive is fine for me. Tinycore is small...Slitaz also and other distros
and i now have USB 2.0 on my old laptop which is fast interface.

V.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2011, 02:37:17 PM »
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/xboot-multiboot-iso-usb-creator/

this is also a great tool because it allows you to puts lots of Linux .iso files onto ONE cd disc.
You can then boot into ANY of them at will.

A typical CD disc can hold maybe 5 to 10 small Linux distros  (Tinycore, slitaz, Pen drive Linux,
Puppy Linux, Debian basic, Ubuntu basic.)

what i would really like to do is very very similar to what is above.


i already know how to use Unetbootin to be able to do FULL hard drive installs of several Linux distros. (not just frugal installs) and have those Distros listed in a boot menu at start up of the hard drive.

V.

Offline maro

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2011, 05:22:49 PM »
[rant]
I soemtimes really wonder about the value of search engines when people just search around, find some phrases, create within 1-2 hours several posts linking to some of the search results, but apparently not finding the time to switch on their brain to actually trying to UNDERSTAND what the stuff means. Littering a thread here with not one but half a dozen statements of their limited understanding (or their unwillingness to change this) is certainly a surefire way to annoy users like myself that are attempting to provide some help to others. IMHO this approach does not provide any useful information, but is likely to increase the confusion for others. So switching on ones brain first before posting might be better.
[/rant]

That said, here is my take on the 'loopback' feature of GRUB2:
(1) Booting a Linux system like TC via GRUB2 requires to create in a GRUB2 configuration file a stanza that contains details about the kernel file (plus the boot codes) and the initrd file. For the former the 'linux file ...' command is used, whilst the latter requires the use of the 'initrd file' command.
(2) The crucial aspect to understand the subject in question (at least IMHO) is how those two files are to be specified for these GRUB2 commands. This usual case is to use a notation like (hd0,1)/boot/bzImage, which contains in this example a device name and a file name and refers to the '/boot/bzImage' file on the first partition (i.e. '1') of the first disk (i.e. 'hd0'). Alternatively the 'root' variable can be used (e.g. via set root=(hd0,1)) to define the device for all subsequent file specifications. This would then allow to use something like linux /boot/bzImage ... instead of linux (hd0,1)/boot/bzImage ....
(3) What the 'loopback' command allows for is to specify kernel and initrd files that are "inside" an ISO file (which itself is stored somewhere e.g. a hard disk), without the requirement to extract those files firstly out of the ISO image. It achieves this by creating a new device (in the following called 'loop0', but pretty much any other name would go as well). So assuming one has the 'tinycore_3.8.3.iso' file stored in the '/temp/my-iso-files' directory on the third partition of the second hard disk (to make things a little bit more "interesting") the required GRUB2 command would be
    loopback loop0 (hd1,3)/temp/my-iso-files/tinycore_3.8.3.iso
One could then use either '(loop0)/boot/bzImage' to refer to the kernel file or use first set root=(loop0) and afterwards '/boot/bzImage' to achieve the same outcome.

So, the use of the 'loopback' command of GRUB2 is not putting a limitation on which distributions are "supported". As far as I can tell all those that can be booted straight from a CD-ROM (e.g. TC) could be used via 'loopback' as well. It does OTOH require that any additional boot codes that these CD-ROMs are using (e.g. via the 'append' or 'kernel' command in a configuration file like 'isolinux.cfg' or that are given on a session-by-session basis at the 'boot:' prompt of ISOLINUX) will need to be appended to the 'linux' command of the GRUB2 boot stanza (i.e. in the GRUB2 configuration file 'grub.cfg').

I consider more generic questions of how to install GRUB2 on a given system not at all to be a subject of this tread (or any other in this TC related forum here). IMHO helping to create a GRUB2 boot stanza for TC is within the limits of this forum, putting GRUB2 "somewhere" on a system which is likely to have a multitude of different OS and their respective boot loaders is "out of scope". My aim here is primarily to put an end to the "whining", and creation of "half-truth" as a consequence of lack of understanding.

BTW, with so many (potentially confusing) article floating around it does make sense to actually read the proper manual page, as it spells out all the details and notations. At least it does not do a half-arsed job in providing only a subset of the whole picture.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 03:01:05 AM »
Hello

oh sorry. The web page i saw is written by SuperGrub2's creators and is specifically pertaining to explaining the "loopback.cfg" feature of their Grub2 tool .............it says....

Many GNU/Linux liveCD distributions support loop booting from an iso file.  Each live distribution has its own quirks when it comes to loop booting and needs to be treated specially (unless they ship a Loopback.cfg).

I simply started a thread and asked if TCL supported the above feature.

Maro, it turns out that you are effectively saying SuperGrub2's web page is incorrect. They are the people who invented the Loopback.cfg feature of their own Grub2 tool.

your words

So, the use of the 'loopback' command of GRUB2 is not putting a limitation on which distributions are "supported"

See, the above stuff is kind of worrying isn't it. You'd expect the inventors of a tool to explain it's basic outline in simple terms....

Your other help is more specific and i appreciate your comments. However, linking me a Grub manual
page is not helpful.

The subject here is generally about booting Linux distros (.iso files). My question was Specific to Tinycore so your other comments are needless.

Maro,I post web page links to help other people out.

There are other people in the thread.

Maro, I believe i already understood this topic enough to not need your last post .YOu have simply repeated what i had already read about the loopback.cfg feature of Grub2. That repitition is what everybody else would have also read because they generally look on the web.

Maro, people don't read 30 page Grub manuals in-case you didn't know. That is the reason forums
exist. The forum is here for experienced people to help other users.

[rant]
I sometimes really wonder about the value of search engines when people just search around, find some phrases, create within 1-2 hours several posts linking to some of the search results, but apparently not finding the time to switch on their brain to actually trying to UNDERSTAND what the stuff means. Littering a thread here with not one but half a dozen statements of their limited understanding (or their unwillingness to change this) is certainly a surefire way to annoy users like myself that are attempting to provide some help to others. IMHO this approach does not provide any useful information, but is likely to increase the confusion for others. So switching on ones brain first before posting might be better.
[/rant]


Maro, this paragraph above is just baiting of forum users like myself. No point in doing it.

I hope youdon't find this reply too cutting.....and i hope i have not misunderstood you.

V.










Offline cast-fish

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Re: booting tcl
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 10:55:35 AM »
Hello,

Sorry for my last curt reply here. It is not clever of me to be comfrontational.

I stand corrected in the sense that the OP paragraph is from the official wiki
page of "loopback.cfg" and NOT from the the Grub2 people who actually created "loopback.cfg"
feature of GRub2 tool.

It's rare for a wiki page to mislead me. In my experience, wiki pages are usually accurate and
give a good insight into a subject.

In respect of this thread, "loopback.cfg" could be a good idea because you don't need
a CD drive or blank discs to run an operating system on a machine. (looks that way)

thanks

V.