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Author Topic: bootloader  (Read 11657 times)

Offline cast-fish

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2011, 06:01:12 AM »
Hello again everybody,

jeeps, i just notice MW pro versions have a backup tool and it actually works. wow!

On this thread subject....Rich i can tell that you know your stuff and quite clearly i don't know mine.

All i was trying to do was a similar process to what i do with another dristro here.

That other distro also frugally installs to it's own partition and you can ignore bootloader work.Then you can use the CD disc of that distro to boot that frugal install up.   (you know which distro)

So, by what you type Rich, you are saying the above paragraph is not possible with TCL.

The similar distro i speak of is almost identical in design to tcl with regard to home, and tce directories. They are just called something different. The idea is very similar.

hmmm...

>.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2011, 06:26:26 AM »
Hello

Jason, also you appear to know the score with this subject.

Thanks for all the help. I can indeed achieve what i want to achieve
after this forums help. It's not elegant, but that is not an issue.

thanks

>

Offline Rich

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2011, 07:22:23 AM »
Hi cast-fish
If you you are looking for something a little more "frugal", the only subdirectory you need is the
tce directory. Your home and opt directories will be backed up when you shut down and recreated
the next time you boot.

Quote
That other distro also frugally installs to it's own partition and you can ignore bootloader work.Then you can use the CD disc of that distro to boot that frugal install up.   (you know which distro)
That's exactly what's being described here. Your data is on the hard drive and the Linux kernel is being
loaded from the CD.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2011, 08:04:03 AM »
Hello,

oh dear...that lost post has really confused me.

If you take a look at this threads initially question, i have got a full
satisfactory answer in reply number 10 from "rich".

i have concluded the thread with the following question...

quesion....
is it possible to use the "TCL CD disc" to get to a computer to boot a "TCL hdd frugal" install?  (the frugal hdd install has not involved any hdd bootloader work)

From my limited understanding, i am simply looking for a "yes" or "no" answer to the above question.

If the answer is NO, then i can look at subjects such as "Super Grib disk 2". If the answer is YES then great.

thanks,

>

Offline gerald_clark

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2011, 08:22:52 AM »

Offline roberts

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2011, 10:38:21 AM »
Perhaps the OP is talking about the traditional initrd which has a minimal system enough to load some modules and scan for persistent / file system then pivots root and initrd is removed. Systems that use that boot architecture can indeed use a boot from a CDROM to a frugally installed system, e.g., this is what I did at my former project.

Tiny Core does not use that boot architecture. The initrd is the real / file system. There is no minimal file system to load a few modules, no scanning, and no pivot root.

If a pivot root file system is what you are looking for then the answer is no.
10+ Years Contributing to Linux Open Source Projects.

Offline SvOlli

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2011, 12:38:25 PM »
is it possible to use the "TCL CD disc" to get to a computer to boot a "TCL hdd frugal" install?  (the frugal hdd install has not involved any hdd bootloader work)

From my limited understanding, i am simply looking for a "yes" or "no" answer to the above question.
I think that question is still unanswered. So here's my attempt for an answer.

The short answer is "yes". I bit in detail: during boot-up TCL scans the available partitions for the "/tce"-directory and takes the first it finds, if non is specified by the boot options. I Hope that answers your question.

Offline Jason W

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2011, 01:49:25 PM »
If simply a persistent tce directory was the question at hand, then the term "frugal install" has been misleading and has caused the confusion.  Installing TC implies that the desired kernel and tinycore.gz to boot with reside on persistent media aside from the TC cdrom.  Persistent tce directory can be used with or without installing TC to the usb/hard drive.

Offline Guy

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2011, 01:53:37 PM »
Quote
is it possible to use the "TCL CD disc" to get to a computer to boot a "TCL hdd frugal" install?

It is not completely clear what you are trying to achieve, so you get contradictory answers.

You can run tinycore from the cd, and have apps saved in a tce directory on the hard drive, and personal files and settings saved in backup on the hard drive (Using this method, tinycore is not fully installed).

Is this what you mean?

Why don't you want to use a bootloader?

What exactly are you trying to achieve?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 02:13:37 PM by Guy »
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Offline coreplayer2

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2011, 01:51:24 AM »
On the face of the confusing OP  the answer is both yes and no,    right

I think the OP is talking about copying the cd (either by ISO or as two files) to disk then booting TC from there.     And if that's the case then yes indeed you can, but you still need a boot loader so the answer is no.      because you always need a boot loader no matter what, or how you install or what files you copy to disk.

it sounds like the OP writer is not comfortable with configuring the boot loader.


simple enough, download the iso of TC  and save to disk, then install grub4dos (which is not only for dos).   A boot loader is always required.   A boot loader can manage many partitions across many disks but a boot loader is always required.  I can't think of an easier and more versatile boot loader to install than grub4dos.  I'm sure if the OP get's this far we can easily help provide the configuration file..


Seems like the question should have been "can you install TC to hard disk without installing a boot loader?"    NO
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 02:08:51 AM by coreplayer2 »

Offline Jason W

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2011, 05:07:42 AM »
You can boot an installation of TC without installing a boot loader.   See my earlier post for details if that is what is desired.  

EDIT:  This answer is not intended to confuse new users on how to run or install TC, but rather is a specific possible solution to a unique situation that is not ordinarily encountered, not recommended under normal use.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 07:49:09 AM by Jason W »

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2011, 08:22:41 AM »
 ;D    I hear you but..

I would argue that even this method requires and installs a boot loader albeit to another disk,  the same can be said of many other boot loaders.   Downloading and installing super grub disk 2 to a disk is the same as installing grub4dos to another disk; there is still a boot loader installed and configured.  configuration is always entered whether typed at the prompt or typed to a file, either way results in the same thing.

So many great answers from everyone here, just the question which is far from specific  :-\

Here is the problem
Quote
i am simply looking for a "yes" or "no" answer to the above question
This would require asking a simple question??  insufficient data, pity the question did not elaborate.

additionally
Quote
If you take a look at this threads initially question, i have got a full
satisfactory answer in reply number 10 from "rich".
This solution appears to resolve the boot loader issue by using one from the cd,  however does not allow installing TC to it's own partition as specified in the OP,  saving only user installed extensions and data to the HDD.       Can this really be called a "frugal install"? 




« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 10:10:03 AM by coreplayer2 »

Offline Rich

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 11:11:35 PM »
Hi cast-fish & coreplayer2
The definitive answer is NO, you can not boot a frugal install using the Tinycore CD.
In order to understand the answer you must understand the question, and in order
to understand the question you must first understand the definition of  "frugal install".
The definition as per roberts is as follows:
Quote
The pristine boot that I have championed for five years during my involvement with DSL,
is what I am still an ardent proponent. You don't need to be booting from cdrom to achieve it.
Instead my recommended method to "install to hard drive" is frugal. That is copying two files
bzImage and tinycore.gz to any partition of your hard drive and point your bootloader to it.
These two files are loaded by the boot loader and give you the exact same basic desktop you
would get if you were to boot a Tinycore CD.
The boot loader used for the CD can only be used to read those two files from the CD. In any case,
the only difference is which media you are booting from, the end result is exactly the same.

Thought technically not required for a frugal install, you will probably want a /tce directory so that
you can save any applications you download. And that brings us back to this point:
Quote
That other distro also frugally installs to it's own partition and you can ignore bootloader work.Then you can use the CD disc of that distro to boot that frugal install up.   (you know which distro)
Now that distro's definition of frugal may be a little different from Tinycore's, but if you boot the
Tinycore CD using the boot code   tinycore tce=sda3/tce   it will create the /tce directory for you.
After that you can boot without that boot code and Tinycore will find the /tce directory on it's own.
The /tce directory is where AppBrowser will save your applications and where the backup script
will save a compressed copy of your home directory along with other items. This is the simplest
way to get persistence. I hope this clears things up.

Offline cast-fish

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Re: bootloader
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2011, 07:56:59 AM »
Hello,

yes, i kind of figured the last post here is where this story ends. This thread has
helped me understand and achieve my desires with tcl, so thanks very much.

>