Tiny Core Linux
Off-Topic => Archive / Obsolete => Starter Packs => Topic started by: newbody on May 26, 2011, 12:08:37 PM
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Thanks
may I ask
What I need is to make the ntfs drive read write
now it is still set as read only.
Can I not do that manually in Terminal without running the tc-grub4dos?
I mean in case that program mess up some mbr or something. Which it wanted to do and what Lee confirmed it did so I was lucky that it failed to install on my computer. I did try to ask this before though!
edited subject title to reflect new name
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I have grub4dos on one computer booting between two versions of Puppy and WinXP. I recall that it was fairly simple to manually add an additional choice in menu.lst (?), following the directions at the lin'n'win website (http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwin/step00-linnwin.htm).
Can the same manual procedure be used to add the new tiny core linux option to the boot menu?
Steve
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Yes, if you have grub4dos already, you can add Tiny Core commands to menu.lst.
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Yes I did that but the HDD is still read only and I need to make it read write. How does one do that?
you can add Tiny Core commands to menu.lst
Does that mean I can set the sda3 as read write in that code?
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Note: Files that have changed and are likely in your backup:
.profile
Shouldn't .xsession also be mentioned? There are perhaps many who use persistent HOME, so no new .profile and .xsession gets generated in these cases either
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Hi newbody
You need to install ntfs-3g.tcz
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You need to install ntfs-3g.tcz
I did a frugal install on a WinXP system (booting from ntfs on /dev/sda1) according to the instructions at
http://www.computing.net/answers/linux/remounting-fs-as-readwrite/27942.html
because the wiki article mentioned in the HOWTO in the grub4dos extension (and in the tc wiki) doesn't display for me (blank page - can others see it?).
The install was -ridiculously- easy. I like it. :)
I put tce/optional/ntfs-3g.tcz in the root of the NTFS boot partition and referenced it in tce/onboot.lst
TC boots and loads the extension. As expected, sda1 is mounted read-only because it had to be mounted before the extension was loaded.
sudo rebuildfstab
yields an entry in /etc/fstab like:
/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs-3g noauto,users,exec, 0 0 # Added by TC
But...
sudo mount -n -o remount,rw /mnt/sda1
doesn't work - no errors, but sda1 is still mounted ntfs instead of ntfs-3g and is still ro.
I suspect that the remount function doesn't do a complete umount but just resets some flags. I'm sure if I could just umount the fs and remount is again but I can't. It says "...device or resource busy".
... OK. tested that...
If I boot base norestore, manually mount sda1, copy ntfs-3g* to /tmp/tce/optional/, manually umount sda1, tce-load -i ntfs-3g, I can get r/w access to sda1 - but now none of my shtuff is loaded.
So, I can have all my extensions and data conveniently loaded and have r/o access to the storage - or- I can get r/w storage but I have to manually restore my backup and load my extensions.
Is there an easy work around where I can have both? W/O remastering or using other storage? ( I actually have fat and ext2 as well as ntfs filesystems on this drive, but supposing I didn't... )
Other notes:
During all this testing, I sometimes forgot to use sudo with umount and it worked anyway (as user tc).
I can't seem to force a read-only mount using ntfs-3g.
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Hmmm... no, I didn't read ntfs4tinycore.sh yet. Oops. ;)
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I see no one has done a fresh installation of Tiny Core on a pristine XP system,
What is requested is a simple installation for newbies but what is attempted is not!
Again, all the questions are on how to back into a installation with an existing grub4dos
remix or remaster.
The automated script is not trying to support complex exiting grub4dos with Puppy or remixes.
That will require manual editing and copying of files. I have no interest to try to setup every
conceivable combination of Linux distributions trying to maintain how they, other distributions,
are setup.
The automated script installs a ntfs-3g.gz into the tce/boot directory alongside bzImage and tinycore.gz and creates a proper boot menu item with initrd loading both tinycore.gz and ntfs-3g.gz as well as specifying the tce directory.
Such achieves the desired result.
Essentially what is missing in those who are backing into an existing grub4dos setup is:
1. Use Load Starter Pack to navigate to and load tc-grub4dos.gz
2. If Windows drive is mounted. Use mount tool to unmount it.
3. Use Load Starter Pack to navigate to and load /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz
4. Use mount tool to mount Windows drive.
5. copy /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage on Windows drive.
6, edit grub4dos menu.lst with the entry for tinycore to be as follows.
title Tiny Core Linux
find --set-root /tce/boot/bzImage
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage quiet tce=hda1
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz
Reboot your computer.
You must specify your tce directory via the tce= boot option, as auto-scanning ntfs partitions is not
supported in the base.
Do not also install the ntfs-3g.tcz extension its function is replaced by ntfs-3g.gz
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Things are getting better all of the time.
Installing Tiny Core on a ntfs partition with Windows works.
and you can load the starter packs from ntfs.
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There is a minor thing which may confuse users
When installation starts, you see
Applying grub4dos using bootlace.com .......
There is a pause
Then you see
success
Then there is another pause
Installation is not complete, but some users may think it is when they see success.
They may turn off the computer (I know they would need to be quick). On low performance computers it may take longer.
I suggest, "success" be changed to something else, for example, "continuing installation"
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There is a bug which occurs sometimes (not always) when you use Run Application.
You may start typing something, for example, tc-install or tc-grub4dos. It is sometimes automatically completed with something else, such as tc-terminal-server, or watch.
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A very minor thing. I don't know if it is realistic. Not important if you don't want to change it.
If possible, it would be nicer if the line spacing between comments during installation was more consistent.
I know there are various options, which complicates it.
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@Robert: I did a test installation of TC 3.7rc2 in a Win2k VM (with NTFS) using the 'tc-grub4dos.gz' starter-pack. This seemed to have worked just fine, as I was able to boot both OS (i.e. Win2k as well as TC) via the new (changed) boot loader.
Mind you without reading the instructions in your OP (in particular the need for the 'tce=...' boot code) I could have made a mistake. So maybe the 'tce=...' boot code should be presented in the respective GUI screen as a default value (which should still leave the option for the user to remove it and pay the price for it). Therefore maybe a bit of information (in the GUI) that (and why ?) this boot code might be required would be useful to users.
I've got to admit that I've done zero further testing and the VM is now "lost" again. To do this quick test I used a basic VM I already had for VirtualPC 2007 and as I used the "Undu Disks" option the changes were not written back to the VHD.
@Lee: I also wanted to try to replicate the problem you've reported in reply #6. I therefore removed the '/mnt/hda1/tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz' part from the 'menu.lst' boot stanza and (initially) ended up after a reboot with a read-only NTFS. I emulated your situation via sudo loadpack.sh /mnt/hda1/tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz (which seemed to somehow trigger a rebuild of '/etc/fstab', so I did not have to do one explicitly).
I can confirm that a sudo mount -o remount,rw /dev/hda1 did not work (but also did not fail, as $?==0). Nevertheless umount /mnt/hda1 && sudo mount /mnt/hda1 worked instead and lead to a writable NTFS.
BTW, I've noticed that on "real HW" umount -l /mnt/sda1 works for me where '/dev/sda' is a USB stick I've just used to boot TC from. Without the '-l' (i.e. "lazy umount") option I've also only had "...: Device or resource busy" refusals.
EDIT: Adjusted the reply number as this thread had been split off another one.
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I see no one has done a fresh installation of Tiny Core on a pristine XP system
Wellll... this system lost its "pristine" virginity long before TC came along. :)
You're right and I apologize for being somewhat selfish there.
So...
This is a WinXP Pro 32 bit system with 1 physical HD with several partitions. For now, we'll pretend there's only one and that's sda1, formatted ntfs.
From the rc2 changelog (above):
Typical instructions for tc-grub4dos.gz via Windows from a base no network Tiny Core boot.
1. Use Windows to access and download tc-grub4dos.gz typically this is save to:
Documents and Settings/user/Desktop
2. Boot from Tiny Core CD or unetbootin pendrive. This results in a base norestore (cloud) mode.
3. Use mount tool to mount your Windows drive.
4. Use Control Panel -> Load Starter Pack to navigate Windows drive to load tc-grub4dos.gz
5. Use Run icon and type tc-grub4dos. Program begins...
1) Ok, I was really using tc, but the effect of the file download is essentially the same. Got the file, tc-grub4dos.gz.
2) I already had bzImage and tinycore.gz on sda1 in boot/tc3.7rc2 ( I actually already had them booting by invoking grldr from boot.ini - sort of the opposite of what I ended up with below ). Booted with "base" and "norestore" to simulate booting from CD.
3) Used mnttool to mount sda1
4) Used Control Panel -> Load Starter Pack to navigate Windows drive to load tc-grub4dos.gz
5) Used the "Run" tool to run tc-grub4dos
Step 5 didn't work the first time I tried it, but it did the second time so I suppose I had just fat-fingered it... or maybe related to the issue Guy mentioned above?
Worked through the GUI installer - no problems. There's room for improvement in the prompts/labels - a little more reassurance for the underconfident, maybe - but overall it just worked.
Since I had already fiddled around w/grub4dos manually and installed it to be called from the Windows boot loader, I expected this process to give me a third entry in boot.ini. I was only a little surprised to see grub come up -before- the Windows boot loader. Of course the Windows boot loader is still able to invoke my original grub menu, which makes for a very -unusual- sequence of menu screens! ;D While I've done some serious geekery on the test system in the recent past, I'm relatively confident that none of that affected the validity of the results of the current test.
At the end of the whole process, the bottom line is "the install process with grub4dos.gz just plain works and you couldn't ask for it to be a whole lot easier". Another well deserved "Thank you", roberts.
In contrast, my manual efforts worked, but not 100% correctly, and were only easy for me because I'm a geek and have been fooling with TC for a long time.
I'll be away from computers until after the weekend but at the next opportunity I will try the installation on an XP system that, while again "not pristine" has had any OS but XP on it.
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I see no one has done a fresh installation of Tiny Core on a pristine XP system,
What is requested is a simple installation for newbies but what is attempted is not!
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/win32-loader
this would be a good way for major newbies. it would require some tweaking for TC, though (download links, construction of boot parameters, etc).
what it does, is fetch kernel+initrd, and grub4dos. plug grub4dos into windows' boot.ini file and generate a bootloader config. and that's pretty much it.
so the system retains windows' MBR while having extra boot menu option for linux.
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Maro, I guess this part of your posts apply to my situation then.
I can confirm that a sudo mount -o remount,rw /dev/hda1 did not work (but also did not fail, as $?==0). Nevertheless umount /mnt/hda1 && sudo mount /mnt/hda1 worked instead and lead to a writable NTFS.
What complicates it is that I don't know things on your level.
It is true that I am practically like a newbie in that I don't know such things like
umount /mnt/hda1 && sudo mount /mnt/hda1
despite me have seen such CLI codes since 1986 or at least 1989 when I was member of a Computer club and the Chairman there was a Unix fan and tried to teach us such things. I failed at it and still fails at it. No brain for such. Still I have booted some 75 different Linux systems on USB and some 40 or so on frugal install on NTFS so I am very used to be able to just boot things and not let a script force a new mbr version on me that I don't want to happen.
So as usual the latest version was not meant to work for me. I did try to ask that though.
So I need to do what you tested there and see if it works on my set up too.
What I still fail to get is the difference between the ntfs-3g.tcz and the ntfs-3g.gz and the initrd code extra load there of the ntfs-3g.gz
You took that away. Does that mean it instead make use of the already installed ntfs-3g.tcz you had or something? How else would it work oh it is already installed in the kernel?
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what it does, is fetch kernel+initrd, and grub4dos. plug grub4dos into windows' boot.ini file and generate a bootloader config. and that's pretty much it.
so the system retains windows' MBR while having extra boot menu option for linux.
im surprised this method is not all ready in use
as it seems (to me) the simple way to boot from m$ formated partition ,
with least modification to existing system .
i have not had chance to test 3.7rc
but from this thread it sounds like grub4dos is replacing ntldr with grldr .
more info / examples on ntldr > boot.ini > grldr (http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/install_windows.htm) method yoshi314 talked of .
above example from "grub4dos guide (http://urlhttp://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9780.0)"
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Hi newbody
You need to install ntfs-3g.tcz
thanks Rich for caring about a total noob.
Yes and no.
RobertS writes here http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9762.msg53256#msg53256
Essentially what is missing in those who are backing into an existing grub4dos setup is:
1. loadpack tc-grub4dos.gz
2. copy /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage
3, edit grub4dos menu.lst with the entry for tinycore to be as follows.
title Tiny Core Linux
find --set-root /tce/boot/bzImage
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage quiet tce=hda1
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz
You must specify your tce directory via the tce= boot option, as auto-scanning ntfs partitions is not
supported in the base.
Do not also install the ntfs-3g.tcz extension its function is replaced by the script auto installed ntfs-3g.gz
The problem is that it is on a too high tech for me to grasp exactly what to do.
this part is totally new to me
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz
What I also need to do is to get how to follow this part
1. loadpack tc-grub4dos.gz
2. copy /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage
that loadpack is that some kind of extracting program then that unpack the gz and I need to sift out the ntfs-3g.gz part and move it to /boot
Loadpack seems to be something introduced in RC1 by RobertS he writes
* New GUI loadpack to load, when required, Starter Pack after boot.
So in my case I then have to practice on using that program then.
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loadpack = "Use Control Panel -> Load Starter Pack to load tc-grub4dos.gz"
Hopefully you know how to find and edit your existing menu.lst and copy a file.
Oh, the joys of backing into an existing grub4dos installation.
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There is a minor thing which may confuse users
When installation starts, you see
Applying grub4dos using bootlace.com .......
There is a pause
Then you see
success
Then there is another pause
Installation is not complete, but some users may think it is when they see success.
They may turn off the computer (I know they would need to be quick). On low performance computers it may take longer.
I suggest, "success" be changed to something else, for example, "continuing installation"
That "success" is a message from bootlace.com. I pass along its output.
I can display "continuing installation" after that.
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A very minor thing. I don't know if it is realistic. Not important if you don't want to change it.
If possible, it would be nicer if the line spacing between comments during installation was more consistent.
I know there are various options, which complicates it.
If you are talking about the output in the Review window during installation, I am mostly passing the output from other called programs.
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OK, I did the test, on my Vbox XP virtual machine. I hope I remember all the comments.
1. From previous knowledge I knew to download the .iso as well as tc-grub4dos.gz. At the moment this info is quite obscure in the wiki. I think it ought to be somewhere a lot more prominent. Perhaps as a separate wiki main heading? I took the liberty of editing the wiki page, Guy. If this is unacceptable, please accept my apology and restore. I still have some things to do there.
2. It would be great if there was a wbar icon for starting this process, instead of using a terminal. We may be dealing with linux neophytes without the faintest clue of what to do next.
3. The first time round, I tried doing it without the wiki and immediately failed - I didn't know what to do after loading the starter pack. I fumbled a bit, created /tce and then proceeded with the process, which failed when it tried to umount and mount. I think that was because /tce existed and was in use.
4. So I deleted /tce and rebooted, starting from scratch again. This time I referred to the wiki.
5. The GUI is confusing in several areas: What is embedded vs frugal?
6. The select version to install confusingly opens the root file system. A newbie is going to be completely bewildered by this. I mean, I was! After a moment of thought I concluded it wanted the tinycore.gz file so I navigated to /mnt/hc1 to find the cd's boot dir. I would propose the GUI goes there automatically.
7. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't spec persistent /home and /opt on a NTFS drive, so these options should not even be there. I did actually pick them but on looking for them on the Windows drive, could not find them until I remembered this issue.
8. At the final screen, there is an additional button, 'prodeed'. Ditch this and for the sake of consistency, use the play button again.
9. At the end of the process, it seems as if the GUI hangs. There should be a firm ending message with a close button or something.
This is a great piece of work! I wanted this 2 years ago!
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I did my best.
I missed the run part most likely so I should try that again. But this part
to move the /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz moving it to /mnt/sda3/tce/boot/
fails due to that hdd is read only. I most likely should put in an usb and move it to the usb as a termpory thing because I do see it there and I do see the boot and the bzImage and the tinycore.gz too but I am not allowed to copy it to that place due to read only.
Joy it is but not so fun to fail again and again.
I tested what Maro succeeded doing but that failed on my gear.
tc@box:~$ sudo su
root@box:~# umount /mnt/sda3 && sudo mount /mnt/sda3
root@box:~# whoami
root
root@box:~# cp /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz /mnt/sda3/tce/boot/
cp: can't create '/mnt/sda3/tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz': Read-only file system
root@box:~#
So not sure how to do this. I am in TCL 3.7RC2 now but I fail to set it as rw. Sudo does not help either.
I had Fluff as sudo but that did not give it write permissions.
I do the loadpack once more. I did forgot the run command. Maybe that do it but most likely it only start the install to mbr thing.
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You are not listening to me, but are following others still trying to use the ntfs extension.
There is no need to umount or remount, if you follow my instructions.
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RobertS
oh you wrote an answer while me asked more questions.
You are not listening to me, but are following others still trying to use the ntfs extension.
There is no need to umount or remount, if you follow my instructions.
Then one need to sort out what it means to follow your instructions indeed.
I do my very best to grasp what you tell me to do.
What you write here
1. loadpack tc-grub4dos.gz
2. copy /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage
3, edit grub4dos menu.lst with the entry for tinycore to be as follows.
Maybe work if one are booted from CD or USB but does it really work if one are already booted from the very hdd one are supposed to install the grub4dos on when one already have a grub4dos there that one are very satisfied with and already have at least ten working os on it?
I did go to Panel and click on load starter pack and I found the file to load and did that and it said okay to it too and it failed when I did this
2. copy /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage
I tried to ways to follow that instructon. Using Fluff as sudo and tried using the Terminal as root.
That does not work for the hdd is still set as read only. So how does one change that?
I did follow these instructions. The reason I tested what Maro suggested was that it did work for him.
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@jur, Why not follow the instructions I posted in original post? Or my follow-up post when an existing grub4dos is already in use.
Is there a wiki entry for this specific starter pack?
Why on earth would one start my creating a tce directory?
Was that in any of my posted instructions?
Neither is opening an terminal.
It is one thing if you want to hack, another if you want to test per my posted instructions.
I cannot figure out when I post a new program with instructions, They are not followed.
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Boot options home=hda1 opt=hda1 work as expected. Of course the level 1 directory of your Widows Xp now has /home/tc and /opt directories populated. So then Tiny Core now occupies three directories on XP.
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Everything is easy when one know how to.
I have finally success doing it my way. But how to retell it is not so easy.
This part of your text works well if one knows what it refers to which a newbie would not know.
Even I fail to despite me have long experience of trying to get what real linux users say to me.
loadpack tc-grub4dos.gz
So I did place the tc-grub4dos.gz in a place easy to find the /mnt/sda3/tce/boot/
I followed your advice to use the Panel and Load Starter package so I marked it and clicked on the button and that worked because your next instruaction work on my gear to the first part.
/tmp/ntfs-3g.gz yes I see that part there but am not allowed to write it to the hdd. Copy it does but not write to so
so being Newbody one try work around. Where am I allowed to write? To an usb memory stick
so I plugged in one such and mounted it and used Fluff to copy and paste as sudo just in case.
And that worked.
So now the problem TCL has no way toi write it over to to /tce/boot directory along with tinycore.gz and bzImage because that hdd and partition is read only.
When is it not read only? well in Puppy and Porteus and in Knoppix if one tell them to accept to write to the sda3. Puppy was the one I used due to me most familiar with it.
And now after booting again I am in tinycore_v3.7rc2 using your boot entry for grub4dos and I have edited the menu.lst too and edit another file and tested that it works to write to the hdd.
But this was the easiest way to do it. Trust me.
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The easiest way is to run the automated install script instead of manually editing and copying files.
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The easiest way is to run the automated install script instead of manually editing and copying files.
But as regular users in this forum has attested that creates a new such grub4dos along with their earlier such. And that is not what I want.
So my way was the easiest for somebody already having a well working grub4dos with many entries and well integrated with Win7Starter too.
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I had left out the step to also loadpack /tmp/ntfs-3g.gz which enables write access to NTFS so that the copy and edits can be completed.
Updated existing grub4dos instructions:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9762.msg53256#msg53256
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This part of the OP post can be due to my sloppy English and confused mind. I tried to explain but your thought my explanation was part of the request. It was not. I just wanted RC2 to work as any other fural bootable linux distro do. One just add the needed menu.lst and it just works. Nothing fancy is required at all. Even I that usually fail with almost everything can do such in a few minutes manually.
You wrote
Again, all the questions are on how to back into a installation with an existing grub4dos
remix or remaster.
The automated script is not trying to support complex exiting grub4dos with Puppy or remixes.
That part will be misleading to any newbie having no idea what you talk about.
I apology that my lack of fine tuning in how to express myself in a foreign language did mislead you.
I have now almost everything working with the official TCL so no need for remixes for me and no request that your rc2 should take any precautions to such either.
I would prefer that you edit that one out from that post. It fills no function and only is misleading.
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Glad to hear that it is working with official Tiny Core.
Hopefully Guy, Rich, jur or some of our other documentation contributors will be able to update/create specific wiki pages for specific starter packs that newbies can understand.
Programmer types such as myself are not the best to provide documentation.
Besides I already have a new programming challenge that I wish to tackle to further improve Core.
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Yes give priority to that one.
I am very poor at description but if none else give it a try I will within fourtnight? or three weeks or so try to retell how I did the current install for people who have my set up with Netbook that has no CD but working USB slots that I made use of for USB keyboard and USB mouse and a USB memory to make the install a super simple thing once one knew how to.
one way to make it easy would be to have the ntfs-3g.gz as a separate download on the repo so one could take it down to the usb memory. Then one nead not start any loadpack and try to figure out what that is and how to find where the files are.
Thanks for not giving up on me despite my confusing language.
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Boot options home=hda1 opt=hda1 work as expected. Of course the level 1 directory of your Widows Xp now has /home/tc and /opt directories populated. So then Tiny Core now occupies three directories on XP.
Well it most certainly didn't work on my first "successful" trial. When I rebooted, there was a boot message about these locations not being supported.
Aside from your rant about instructions, there were a number of other observations I made as well. Those instructions, seeing how simple you stated them should be abundantly visible during the process, not be obscurely hidden in a rc post - how many bytes could it be?
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I have IMHO an important suggestion:
Instead of applying bootlace to drive C and modifying the boot sector, which is a risky move, consider the less risky option of simply editing boot.ini and appending the additional boot option to it and passing the boot process to brub when the user selects this.
This way, the disc is left intact for the user and removing TC (perish the thought) will leave the user with their original Windows boot intact.
Users wishing to try out TC would feel a lot more at ease if they had the assurance that their Windows installation won't be touched, and that they could simply delete TC if they so wished. But modding the boot sector creates anxiety, as well as potential for disaster when the user suddenly panics and hits ctrl-alt-del, or if the power fails on their desktop in the middle of the process.
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home and opt on ntfs? permission problems ahoy :P
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home and opt on ntfs? permission problems ahoy :P
Exactly.
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I like what Jur writes here and if the newbie already have dual booting then the install mess up that one too does it not? And if one have it already installed as I had then the easier way is to have the ntfs-3g.gz to be delivered in the right place without first having to do the Panel > Start package thing and then look for it in places a newbie have no experience of. bzImage and tinycore.gz are already in the iso in the directory boot so it is easy to put ntfs-3g.gz there too with a read me txt file that gives the menu.lst for those that already have a dual boot install and them easily add that by copy and paste and only change the hda1 to sda3 whatever them see apply on their computer.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9762.msg53349#msg53349 (http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9762.msg53349#msg53349)
home and opt on ntfs? permission problems ahoy :P
curaga and jur how can I test this if it happen on my install too? Any easy to check example?
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@ roberts:
I just want to come on record and express my strong support for the install GUI work - please don't take any clumsy wording on my part to be as negative, not meant that way at all. As I said earlier, I wanted this long ago and am very glad about it.
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I am a self confessed newbie when it comes to Windows beyond 9x.
My last involvement with Windows was Windows95 and adding TCP/IP stack for network at City of Garden Grove. Later some had Windows98. I retired eleven years ago. Never liked Windows and don't use it. We would not even have a grub4dos+NTFS support if it had not been that I was given a hand-me-down Via 533Mhz/512MB XP system. It boots XP. That's about it.
@jur, I don't see brub in the grub4dos.tcz on which this starter pack is based. I have no desire to "adopt" this extension. If it is part of grub4dos then perhaps you will wish to contact the extension maker.
From what I have read at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306559 I can append
c:\grldr="Tiny Core Linux" to boot.ini
But then is the user expected to:
Start->Control Panel->Change to classic view
Double click System icon
Advanced Tab
Startup & Recovery click Settings
Under System Startup you can change the default OS to boot as well as set the time to wait for the user's choice, i.e., use Windows boot menu.
Newbie's are fine with THAT procedure or am I missing something? Seems to me that MS makes it difficult to have users easily access alternate OS.
My current bootlace.com is simple and effective.
I cannot be made to believe that a "self proclaimed newbie" is one that already has grub4dos with an extensive array of OS to boot from. That is surely not the target of current state of starter pack.
To me it is far easier to run MbrFix.exe /drive 0 fixmbr, or even dd a copy/restore the mbr.
The less time I have to spend in Windows the better frame of mind I will be.
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From what I have read at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306559
That's odd, they don't seem to mention installing Linux.
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Robert: I don't think that the user really has to make any manual changes (like defining a default boot option and adding a timeout value). At least on the WinXP systems I've got access to the following lines
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
are already present in the default 'c:\boot.ini' file. So adding the additional entry (plus having the relevant 'grub4dos' files including it's configuration in place) is all that needs to happen.
I've used a few times the WUBI installer that Ubuntu (and LinuxMint) are using for a nice co-existence of Windows and a Linux system without requiring partition changes (it just creates two files that will be loop mounted: one large EXT4 one and a swap one). And AFAIK this is all what this type of installation changes. It therefor leaves the NT boot loader in place and (when selected) grub4dos starts up the Linux system. I agree that this leaves the newbie user maybe with more of a "warm&fuzzy" feeling that not much has changed and might lower the threshold of adoption.
Another thing altogether is the fact that AFAIK the boot loader has changed significantly since Vista (and the 'boot.ini' file is no more). Therefore the path via 'boot.ini' appears to be limited to WinXP (and the other NT-type versions like Win2k). OTOH having 'grub4dos' as the primary boot loader might be a more flexible solution across the different Windows versions.
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Adding the additional entry to boot.ini did not result in a Windows menu, instead XP booted directly. Only after the many steps to force XP to display a boot menu, and then I needed to increase the time for the user to make a selection.
If, however, there is no boot.ini for newer versions of Windows, then using boot.ini is a moot point.
If Vista and Win7 are able to be chain loaded then existing starter pack should work.
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It would good to get some feedback from people using this on Vista and Win7, and other versions of Windows, just to confirm that it works.
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It would good to get some feedback from people using this on Vista and Win7, and other versions of Windows, just to confirm that it works.
Sooo very true (and hence the point I brought it up).
I only use WinXP (or older) myself. Even though I won last year a Win7 Ultimate DVD (and license) at a meeting, I still have no desire to put it on any real HW, and I'm currently a bit short of time (and disk space) to run a test in a VM. One hopes that there are at least one user of each newer version that could run such a test ...
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@jur, I don't see brub in the grub4dos.tcz on which this starter pack is based. I have no desire to "adopt" .....
Oops fat fingers, must be 'grub'
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Adding the additional entry to boot.ini did not result in a Windows menu, instead XP booted directly. Only after the many steps to force XP to display a boot menu, and then I needed to increase the time for the user to make a selection.
If, however, there is no boot.ini for newer versions of Windows, then using boot.ini is a moot point.
If Vista and Win7 are able to be chain loaded then existing starter pack should work.
Unfortunately no. The boot stanza instructs grub to search for boot.ini and set that partition as root. So it will fail with Vista and Win 7.
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Better try it like this:
title Boot Windows NT
find --set-root /bootmgr && chainloader /bootmgr
find --set-root /ntldr && chainloader /ntldr
This way it will work, even when the boot sector of the Windows partition is broken.
Updated: since the ntldr was replaced by bootmgr, we need to try both, if /bootmgr succeeds, /ntldr will not be tried. The first version I posted here first would not work. Sorry.
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Thanks for suggestion. Will implement.
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Implemented SvOlli's suggestion and renamed tc-grub4dos.gz to simply grub4dos.gz
Posted here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/starterpacks/
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Maybe all starter packs should be prefixed with "sp-", so it would be "sp-grub4dos.gz"?
It's a better distinction from the "grub4dos.tcz" package.
And http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/release_candidates/starterpacks/ is empty.
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That is longer than DOS's 8.3 name restriction.
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I am open to suggestions for better names within the 8.3 limit.
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Within 8.3 it's hard. I'm seeing three alternatives:
- grub4dos.gz (when it needs to be 8.3 it might be good to keep it, it's an initrd, so .gz fits)
- sp-g4d.gz (truncate the name, to make space for "sp-")
- grub4dos.spz (move the "sp"-marker to the extension)
There's no alternative that I'd claim to be free of any disadvantage, so I put all three in here for discussion.
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- grub4dos.spz (move the "sp"-marker to the extension)
Is it verified that ".spz" would work as initrd with all possible boot loaders?
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Within 8.3 it's hard. I'm seeing three alternatives:
- grub4dos.gz (when it needs to be 8.3 it might be good to keep it, it's an initrd, so .gz fits)
- sp-g4d.gz (truncate the name, to make space for "sp-")
- grub4dos.spz (move the "sp"-marker to the extension)
There's no alternative that I'd claim to be free of any disadvantage, so I put all three in here for discussion.
How is grub4dos.spz better than grub4dos.gz?
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My control panel doesn't have any option to load a starterpack, or if it does I can't find it!!
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My control panel doesn't have any option to load a starterpack, or if it does I can't find it!!
You need version 3.7rc2 or higher.
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That would explain a lot of things! But the Tiny Core iso was the latest available today (this morning actually)
Ok, I guess the Beta version solved the issue of loading "StarterPacks" whether it helped or not is another matter...
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This thread was particularly interesting for a couple of reasons (one above) and also for the type of install I've been attempting to achieve. Throughout the day I've been scouring this forum for clues to how Tiny Core defines root which is needed for a frugal install using grub4dos v1.7
Unfortunately all the guides have been written with the assumption that folks are going to install TCL into a directory on a running windows system, or a clean HDD using isolinux/extlinux (or something like that) as a boot loader. sorry i didn't pay much attention to this since neither of the above strategies are an acceptable option in my opinion.
Instead I needed a multiboot USB thumbdrive for testing of a few Linux Distro's using a bootloader with a graphical interface.
Additionally I needed to install a copy of TCL to a directory on a dedicated ext2 system partition shared with another separated OS within it's own directory using yet another graphical bootloader interface.
The Bootloader used in both cases is grub4dos v1.7 which features support for a graphical menu. Both these entries in grub4dos's configuration file were successful in booting both the ISO and a frugal TC install.
# Start of global options
color blue/cyan yellow/blue white/black cyan/black
gfxmenu /message.xxx
timeout 10
default 0
# End of global options
# Frugal Install Tiny Core on USB
title Tiny Core Linux
find --set-root /tce/bzImage
kernel /tce/bzImage quiet tce=sdb1
initrd /tce/tinycore.gz
Prior to figuring out this important piece of the puzzle "tce=sdb1" I had booted the ISO directly which is located in the same directory using grub4dos
# Boot ISO's
title Tiny Core Linux ISO on USB
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /tce/tinycore_3.7rc2.iso
map /tce/tinycore_3.7rc2.iso (hd32)
map --hook
root (hd32)
chainloader (hd32)
boot
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@coreplayer: Using a boot code like 'tce=sdb1' where '/dev/sdb' represents a USB drive is not a good idea. As these devices can end up on different 'sdX' depending on which system they are plugged in, etc. It is therefore much better to use 'tce=LABEL=...' or 'tce=UUID=...' as explained in the FAQ (http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#pendrives).
Likewise the device definition for 'opt=...' and 'home=...' should rather not use any 'sdX'. And not using 'waitusb=SEC' (or rather 'waitusb=SEC:UUID=...' where SEC is a maximum wait time for the USB drive recognition) in this scenario is just asking for problems.
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If you use install.gz, it will automatically set up UUID.
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Posted a new version of grub4dos.gz. Only change is the icon. Now uses a generic 48x48 Tiny Core icon, instead of a miniature logo.
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hello
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/win32-loader
i have found a similar win32 tool as the above. It works for PUppy Linux and you just
double click it from the win32 desktop and Puppy is installed. All bootloaders and
such are taken care of and you end up with a dual boot win32/Puppy machine.
One also exists for Ubuntu linux.
Vince.