Tiny Core Linux
Off-Topic => Off-Topic - Tiny Core Lounge => Topic started by: remus on May 09, 2011, 02:02:20 AM
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Check this out,
www.raspberrypi.org
Its about a 25 dollar computer being released in about 12 months, they are putting ubuntu on it for now, tinycore linux would be better.
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It's ARM based...
Ubuntu, Iceweasel, KOffice on 128MB of SDRAM sounds very painful ::)
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I know, 128mb of ram wont cut it, i've tried ubuntu on a p4 2.2GHz with 256mb of ram and it ran very slow, the test machine I used at work for tinycore linux is even older and slower than that, and it runs tinycore linux ok.
I'll send the developer an email and let them know about tinycore linux, perhaps the guys developing the 2 projects could collaborate.
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I didn't mean to refer only to ubuntu.
iceweasel and koffice sound painful with 128MB RAM each on their own.
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I'll send the developer an email and let them know about tinycore linux, perhaps the guys developing the 2 projects could collaborate.
Good idea.
It would be interesting to know how they respond.
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I didn't mean to refer only to ubuntu.
iceweasel and koffice sound painful with 128MB RAM each on their own.
Ok, i'm going to send the developers of the 25 dollar computer an email now, can anyone recommend a ultra light weight package of extensions that would complement the target computer, such as
- internet browser
- email client
- word processor
Sorry but i'm still new to tinycorelinux and have only tried a few packages so far, to learn how to use it for a server on old hardware.
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tinycore linux website seems to be down right now, so i'm going to hold off sending the email, as I was going to include links to the core concepts and faq.
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i don't think tinycore would be a good os to start your linux adventures with
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I think that at the beginning tinycore requires more understanding for its operating systems, but then becomes easier to manage than others.
Just think about the package management, and how its operation is transparent.
The only thing that makes it less intuitive is the lack of a flirtatious and self-explanatory interface (distance that gradually gets shorter), and the presence of some new concept.
On the contrary the weight of an os can not be decorated with bows, on a system of moderate resources such as
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Tinycore does have a steep learning curve at the beginning.
Perhaps someone with the knowledge and skill could develop a very basic set of apps to get people started. Apps that complement the modest cpu/ram of the 25 dollar computer.
- Web Browser
- Word Processor
- Email Client
- Anti Virus
lets face it, if you can only afford 25 dollars for the system and cheap mouse/keyboard/monitor from somewhere (such as the dump). You might be satisfied with Practical usage, not Ubuntu.
Gives a newbie somewhere to start, and as they learn the ropes of tinycore linux, the skies the limit !!!
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Antivirus? Really? Not even on a linux machine in general, but on a really underpowered ARM one?
Really, the only practical need for AV on linux is still servers with Windows clients.
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I have experienced many virus problems under windows operating systems in my time.
I've been using computers running win os since about 1994.
Sorry about my inexperience with linux, I was making an assumption, that if someone could make a virus to exploit a windows os, surly its possible to make one to exploit a linux os.
Again please forgive me inexperience, i've never stuck with linux very long in the past, i've stuck with tinycore though. I have found clamav extension and used it to clean virus's from flash drives at the community centre where I volunteer, which was great, if i plugged them into a win pc running avg, the virus just spread.
Curaga, my journey into linux this time has been to learn about printer server, file server. Which I have learn't a bit so far. I did some googling about linux security and got lost in a LOT of diverse tangents. I did find something called "Damn vulnerable linux" which I plan to download and study.
http://themostboringblogintheworld.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/damn-vulnerable-linux-the-live-cd-that-teaches-you-how-to-hack-download/
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Well, of course Linux is potentially just as insecure as windows, but as you see e.g. in your first research subjects (file and print servers) applications have been traditionally simple, so there aren't lots of entry points or possible exploits, but as linux is getting more complex everyday (Ubuntu Desktop/windows-like experience) the risk is increasing of course.
But you shouldn't try to find every single virus exploiting one of your security problems, instead you should fix these security problems if you find any. That's why anti virus doesn't appeal to me.
When your roof leaks you can catch the water in buckets. But some day you may want to fix it...
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I'll send the developer an email and let them know about tinycore linux, perhaps the guys developing the 2 projects could collaborate.
Good idea.
It would be interesting to know how they respond.
Haven't they yet? Anyone knows?
On the ram front, they upgraded (don't know when exactly) their planned specifications from 128Mb Sdram to 256Mb =)
I believe this thingie is going to see light for real only when I see it. Many announced pieces of hardware never made it to the final users!
I consider a fundamental trend in personal computing the switch to usb-centric computers.
My current mini-itx setup relies heavily on every sort of usb gadget to carry on the various tasks I need from time to time: inside it there is only the motherboard (with integrated usb controllers and video chipset), the ram and the cpu.
This Raspberry in particular made me ponder about how nice it would be if even ram could be extensible via USB: one poorman's way would be creating linux swap file/partition on a usb flash drive, but then there are at least two issues: speed and write cycles wear.
The first problem could be mitigated by upcoming usb 3.0. Second issue would be more troublesome: I googled for a non-solid-state usb drive (even some volatile technology embedded inside an usb device would do), but didn't find anything.
I fancy about rendering the ddr ram a sort of second cache, and have a bigger, slower reservoir of memory via usb. This hierarchy (from small&fast to big&slow) should have no pre-defined end: first cpu sram cache, then dram banks, then this imagined usb ram, then maybe remote ram on another appliance, then who knows... =)
Enough of a rant. I like the Raspberry Pi idea, anyway.
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There are thousands of non-solidstate USB drives available. How could you not find one?
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USB is just about the worst bus to swap over, though. When under memory pressure, hey let's add cpu pressure too ;)
One can swap over network, but I don't think that's still 100% reliable.
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There are thousands of non-solidstate USB drives available. How could you not find one?
Not to mention that they predate solidstate... ::)
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There are thousands of non-solidstate USB drives available. How could you not find one?
Gee... sorry, I forgot to mention that in my raving rant there is no space for magnetic devices: they have moving parts, they are still too big and cumbersome for the roving user.
Never liked that technology, though I must admit they managed to attain wonderful specs with it now. Also, you can fit 128 Gb on a microSD nowadays: you will never get such a high capacity/size ratio with those frantic magnetic disk rotators.
I was thinking about something like sdram or sram on usb. There are newer technologies which would be suitable (T-ram, Z-ram, etc...), all more or less in infancy though:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Computer_memory (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Computer_memory)
I am admittedly just daydreaming, anyway.
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The HyperOS HyperDrive5 (64GB max: $450) and ACARD ANS-9010 (64GB max: $400) are two examples that come to mind. I expect you could use eSATA or put them in a USB-SATA drive case.
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Microdrives are CF sized, are they small enough?
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The HyperOS HyperDrive5 (64GB max: $450) and ACARD ANS-9010 (64GB max: $400) are two examples that come to mind. I expect you could use eSATA or put them in a USB-SATA drive case.
I guess those are the closest implementations, gosh they're big!
Maybe serializing the interface they could get smaller: those units just pack some standard ddr (or the like) modules into some adaptor, if I get them right.
@Curaga: interesting, I had no competence to evaluate that point.
I understand that usb is one of the communication protocols relying the less on hardware and the most on software, is that arguable?
I know of a bunch of overlapping standards for data over a net: AoE, iSCSI, FCoE.
Sadly they all pass through an interface other than usb.
The wonderful page (in which I feel close in spirit with TC principles in many ways):
http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ (http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/)
promotes the first as the least harmful option =)
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Microdrives are CF sized, are they small enough?
Nice! But you are trying to break a stolid bias of mine against magnetic media: no way =)
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Not to mention that they are quite fragile.
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Not to mention that they are quite fragile.
Yes, and more noisy, and sucking more power: I'd say it's all due to the fact that they try to realize via the macroscopic, that is mechanically (Winchesters were born decades ago) what can be done microscopically.
This brings all kinds of complications, which they managed to tame surprisingly good.
But I find sort of wasted all this mastery in facing what could just have been avoided =)
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This Raspberry in particular made me ponder about how nice it would be if even ram could be extensible via USB: one poorman's way would be creating linux swap file/partition on a usb flash drive, but then there are at least two issues: speed and write cycles wear.
Ok, I didn't know that many people already built less-poorman ways of exploiting more and more available flash memories. Two of the most interesting are Microsuck's Windows 7 Readyboost and DragonFly's swapcache. Here are some information links about them and some quotes relevant for the two issues cited above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost)
Since flash drives wear out after a finite (though very large) number of writes, ReadyBoost could eventually wear out the drive it uses—though this may take a long time, depending on various factors. According to Microsoft, the drive should be able to operate for at least ten years.[1] As capacities rise and cost per megabyte drops, USB drives are increasingly suitable for ReadyBoost.
and
http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man/?command=swapcache§ion=ANY
(http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man/?command=swapcache§ion=ANY)
The algorithms the SSD implements in its firmware are probably the most important part of the device and a major differentiator between e.g. SATA and USB-based SSDs. SATA form factor drives will universally be far superior to USB storage sticks. SSDs can also have wildly different wearout rates and wildly different performance curves over time. For example the performance of a SSD which does not implement write-decombining can seriously degrade over time as its lookup tables become severely fragmented.
The bottom line could be that the very rough idea is to take advantage of the technical properties of solid state memory (low seek time, hence better for small scattered cache operations than magnetic media) rather than dumbly place a generic swap file on the device.
Also, usb is slower than regular sata SSDs, which doesn't mean, given the laughable current prices of usb pen drives, that the first option cannot help.
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It might be good hardware for a printer server, would not take up much space thats for sure.
And they do make usb/parallel adapters, great for some of our older printers.
http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-belkin-usb-parallel-printer-adapter-f5u002-price-106075.html
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It might be good hardware for a printer server, would not take up much space thats for sure.
And they do make usb/parallel adapters, great for some of our older printers.
In that case, since you most likely would have to add a usb hub, this thing could be suitable, killing two birds with one stone:
http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DSB-H3SP-3-Port-1-Parallel-1-Serial/dp/B000023VUJ (http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DSB-H3SP-3-Port-1-Parallel-1-Serial/dp/B000023VUJ)
The only drawback is it features usb 1.1, not 2.0 apparently.
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The only drawback is it features usb 1.1, not 2.0 apparently.
It's plenty fast for a serial port and should be fast enough for most printers in text mode.
The drawback I see is that 3 out of the 4 reviews where less than favorable.
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The only drawback is it features usb 1.1, not 2.0 apparently.
Great Idea caminati, pitty that one is usb 1.1, i've done a bit of googling but have not found anything better so far, will keep you posted.
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The only drawback is it features usb 1.1, not 2.0 apparently.
It's plenty fast for a serial port and should be fast enough for most printers in text mode.
The drawback I see is that 3 out of the 4 reviews where less than favorable.
Keep in mind that this yet-to-come raspberry would have only one usb port, so a hub would be a pivotal component to which not only slow devices would likely get attached.
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Hmm,
If the device came with more 4 USB ports + 1 ethernet port it would be better value I think.
Better to design in the ports than try to buy a hub later.
Imagine running a usb mouse and keyboard + ethernet + few other usb devices such as printer and external hard drive through ONE primary port....
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Some other updates, don't know if regarding events interesting/new to any ear:
Raspberry Pi prototype has now a page on wikipedia:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Raspberry_Pi (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Raspberry_Pi)
Since wikipedia is usually quite strict on admittance of a topic (notability, etc...), this is not likely to be a total hoax.
However, to get such a product to final users is a long and troublesome road...
On that very page, you will find a link to a podcast interview to a guy involved with the project.
Can't hear it right now, as I already said my machine is usb-centric and modular. Too modular, I still have to get some usb device for sounds =)
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Thanks for the helpful information
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Good idea to email the developer. Seems to me that they are porting this to become a bigger type of mobile gadget as it is running on something from that end of the field. It would be interesting how the developer and manufacturers would react to such a suggestion, though as what has been raised earlier, it is not that friendly to start with tinycore if you are just new to linux.
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Hell
fascinating device....really because of it's price.
i feel Debian or Angstrom linux are best for this. TCL does not have an arm build does it?
WHen you consider a USB to NIC adapter is 50 cents new on ebay.com.....and also a cd quality
USB sound card is 50 cents new on ebay. You can see how easy this device is to get going. A 4 port usb hub is 99 cents.
I have all these devices running on a hub here. (this laptop is only USB 1.1 socket)
That single socket carries "5 meg bit DSL" and a "USB CD sound card" and "keyboard" and "mouse"
and "webcam."
So you can get this tiny PC up and running for 29.99 dollars.
HDMI already carries sound, so you could get sound in that alternative manner.
But if you were using the composite video signal, then SOUND could come from a USB soundcard.
I don't think people realize the potential of this device. Image young kids skyping around the globe
meeting new friends. Going on web video talkers. Learning from wikipedia. Using online web tools that
require no install or CPU power. (there are lots of them...music production tools, graphics tools...google documents)
http://www.aviary.com/tools
It also plugs into a conventional TV....the TV does not need to have HDMI....this device outputs
a composite video signal also. That signal just needs the correct cable to plug into the
sockets on a standard TV.
A keyboard new is about 3 dollars. Mice are a dollar.
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Ethernet-Network-Adapter-NIC-RJ45-Card-10-100-A1-/280635453633?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41572d30c1
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-3D-AUDIO-SOUND-CARD-ADAPTER-VIRTUAL-5-1-ch-/110522675143?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bbaa2fc7
I just think Angstrom or Debian is better for it.
love to see it be released and come out.
Vince.
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Yes.
I forgot to mention the earlier "USB soundcards" do not require drivers for linux. They work
out of the box. I have one working here with Tinycore and they seem to work with all
other linux distros.
well, i know that technology is a funny old industry. But would a developer go
as far as David has if he were not going to release this device for sale to the general
public. (i don't know, but i can imagine developing an entire PC on a thumb drive is no
simple matter)
Vince.
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I'd love it if they came out with a $40 model that had 512 MB of RAM, and a 1GHz processor, because quite honestly, 256 MB + 700 MHz doesn't seem like enough to handle basic, everyday tasks. Plus, where does it list its *internal* storage specs? It'd be a bit stupid to ship it without storage of any kind, yet it doesn't seem to mention anything except *external* storage...
It's basically a smartphone with a USB/ethernet port, with the display, input, and classical "phone" bits stripped off. Technically speaking, you can find smartphones nowadays that have dual core 1 - 1.4 GHz and 1 GB of RAM, and a Tegra 2 or similar GPU. Of course, the price of those smartphones are at least 10x that of the Raspberry Pi computer...
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Hi,
uh the storage is a 16 gig micro SD card slot. (think so)
700 mhz on ARM is equivalent to about 1 ghz + in intel terms.
Angstrom or DEbian will run fine with this cpu and 256 ddr ram. More than
fine really. Angstrom Linux will fly with those specs.
Ubuntu will be ok if they use a cutdown fast version. Lubuntu or the many
others.
V.
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700 mhz on ARM is equivalent to about 1 ghz + in intel terms.
More like 150-200 Mhz. It couldn't hold a candle to an Atom, and atoms suck.
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i agree vinceASPECT that the specs are fine for debian or tinycore.
in my direct neighborhood, we plan some cute projects with this hardware...
i think that 700mhz on arm is sufficient...
the ram could be more, i would prefer 1GB of ram...
the main thing is that this platform reaches the market to a reasonable prize...
Eben Upton, Director of the Raspberry Pi Foundation, eben.upton@gmail.com,
the project-leader, confirmed me yesterday that it should be available at the end of this year:
"The devices should be available to the general public later in the year."
please support this device and
please don't whine and grumble around that it could be better or different.
i think it makes no sense to compare this tiny hardware with over-equipped hardware or mainframes...
on atom- or 1ghz-platforms, you can squeeze out so much vital power for almost any challenge...
... so there is much to do on a 700mhz arm!
especially tinycore proves how much we can do with limited resources, so we have to take the chance...
i'm pretty excited and some more folks, too.
all interested folks should inform and support the foundation, perhaps write an email, too.
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Oh, I'm not saying this isn't useful. Just shouldn't have too high expectations; I've personally run a 800Mhz single core Cortex-A8, it is not as good as some were saying, and it's much better than the one used in the raspberry pi (both in Mhz and in generation).
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700 mhz on ARM is equivalent to about 1 ghz + in intel terms.
More like 150-200 Mhz. It couldn't hold a candle to an Atom, and atoms suck.
really?....i was led to believe that arm were good...and faster than intel at
lower mGhz ratings.
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Hi vinceASPECT
700 mhz on ARM is equivalent to about 1 ghz + in intel terms.
That sounds like the kind of meaningless dribble a marketing department would spout when trying
to push a product. You are basically comparing a RISC processor to a CISC processor without
stating what the measurement is based on. If you use a benchmark that measures MIPs, then it is
quite possible that the ARM chip will produce higher numbers, however, that does not make it the
faster processor. It just means it can execute more instructions per second but does not tell you
how much work is actually done. While there are many benchmarks out there, most, if not all, will not
give you meaningful results for two basic reasons.
1. Certain tests will favor one processor or the other depending on any special capabilities it may have.
2. A benchmark is not the actual end application you will be running.
A blanket statement that processor A is faster than processor B can not be taken at face value since
it is application specific. The only honest measure of speed is to code the end program for each
processor taking advantage of any special instructions they may have, utilizing any built in hardware
support, making optimum use of any caching capability, and timing how long it takes to execute. Even
with all of this, the end result will still be dependent on the design of the board the processor is
mounted on and the hardware it is connected to.
While far from being a complete treatment of this subject, the bottom line is that a generic statement
that one processor is faster than another is not meaningful.
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700 mhz on ARM is equivalent to about 1 ghz + in intel terms.
More like 150-200 Mhz. It couldn't hold a candle to an Atom, and atoms suck.
It depends on the ARM implementation used: the processor of the PandaBoard (http://www.pandaboard.org/) runs at 1GHz and is more than 20% faster than an 1.6GHz Atom. Most ARMs miss a hardware floating point unit, which drops performace drastically when used in a general purpose environment. The SheevaPlug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug) is a good example for this. It performs well as a server, but sucks if you need floating point, being 10 times slower than the PandaBoard, though running at 1.2GHz.
You guys here hold apples vs oranges and ask "which one's bigger?" where it depends on the fruit itself, rather than the sort of the fruit. Any general comparison of the archtectures is bullshit, there's not even such a thing as a rough guess.
The 25 Bucks System reminds me a lot of the BeagleBoard (http://www.beagleboard.org/), sharing the same big problems: not enough interfaces. To have a system that's of generic use, you'll need a network interface, 1x or 2x usb for keyboard/mouse, mass storage connector (additional usb or sata, onboard flash will not hold a complete full featured desktop) and a way to connect a monitor. Connecting hids, mass storage and network all via an usb hubs sucks in both performance and usablity. Believe me, I've been there, it was like back in the C64 days: annoying wires everywhere.
So here's my recommendation: hand of that 25$ thing. You'll hack it for a week and then drop it for it's disadvantages. If you wanna go for an ARM system go out and by a PandaBoard. Yes, it costs about 5 time as much (counting $10 for the costs for usb-hub and usb network stick), but leaves you with a system you wanna use. Own experience.
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The Pandaboard has a dualcore Cortex-A9, just about latest tech. Yes, I'd expect that one to beat an Atom ;)
Note that my "it" referred to the raspberry cpu, not arm in general.
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What i was told in terms of chip speeds was simply this.
An Arm chip at say 1 ghz would be running certain flavours of Linux
at similar performance and speed to an Atom 1.6ghz running windows.
So a 700 mhz arm, with the right fast Linux behind it....would perform
ok as a computer. Given the above spec.
I don't know if these stories are true or not. I have used slate computers
containing a 300 mhz wm8050 Arm chip and they are perfectly fine for
web browsing. Perhaps Flash video is a little slow...but otherwise they are ok.
(Android 2.2 Froyo OS)
Vince.
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Adobe's Flash 10.3 for Android 2.2 and later supports only ARM Cortex-A8 and above, do not work on low-end phones with ARM5 CPU.
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Oh, compared to Windows, I see ;)
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Substantial news: homepage has undergone total rewriting, and now there is much more information and an ebullient forum, which I just posted some questions (involving TC too, of course) to:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/ (http://www.raspberrypi.org/)
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Yes, it should be on sale to the public by November 2011. At the price they
first stated.
After my experiences using a 300mhz Arm slate computer (Android) i feel that the RP is probably quite a capable little computer with the right Linux on it.
Vince.
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My friend had 2 portable USB mini laptop HDs, cigarette case size, good for a swap.
The Raspberry Pi most probably has only USB-2 interfaces, but it`s still very fast.
I`m very suspicious of this, talk of a $100 NetTop has never materialized.
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I`m very suspicious of this, talk of a $100 NetTop has never materialized.
I was doubtful too, but, attending their forum/blog, and perceiving the amount of hard work, interest and zealots building up around the project, I am getting more and more confident about it getting real. We'll see...
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If the Raspberry Pi turns out to be the $100 NetBook I`ll be surprised and very pleased.
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hello
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
well it looks like full steam ahead.
they should have the final credit card sized board ready in a little while. It will be in a housing and
ready for practical home usage.
The analogue TV connector is very handy. Even today there are still millions of
analogue tv's around. i presume the credit card sized final board will be in a housing and
have the rasberry pi logo and be in packaged in a box with perhaps an sd card containing Debian
or whatever. The keyboard, mouse and video cable are customers responsibility
V.
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Hello
well the new Rasberry Pi PC computer has finally gone on sale to the world.
You can buy the Rasberry Pi "model b" computers from today!
Interestingly the "model A" computer has recieved an unusual free upgrade to 256 megs of RAM.
This makes the $25 model A computer a better buy now. You can get new 99 cent USB "ethernet" internet adapaters and new 50 cent USB 4 hubs on ebay. This leaves you with the power of a model B machine for just the price of a model A
http://www.raspberrypi.org/ (http://www.raspberrypi.org/)
All the computers are being sold by 2 proper distributers now. It's 2 global distributors and the computers will be sold in their stores and their catalogues globally. The computers will also
be manufactured by these 2 companies so "volume" manufacture won't be limited to 10 thousand
units. They will be able to manufacture say 100 thousand computers or as demand requires.
Through the distributor you will also be able to place BULK orders for Rasberry Pi machines to the
same name and address. This is handy for schools and other buyers. (or even re-sellers if such a thing exists)
Vince.
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regarding price, see:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,10866.msg69125.html#msg69125 (http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,10866.msg69125.html#msg69125)
I'm still sceptic on $25 for Model 'A'.
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Yes
it must be impossibly difficult to release a product globally. Considering such things as import taxes
and duty and carriage and shipping and insurance.
Rasberry Pi is a british company and as a result the "model b" is indeed available for me to buy
at exactly the price they mentioned 6 months ago..($35)....it's 21.60 UK pence at Farnells website.
I think the "model a" pricing will be exactly as they said also....when it arrives on sale in about 2 months it will be just 14.99 uk pence to me here. I think the free upgrade to 256 megs of ram is a great thing for the model A. You really don't need to buy a Model B....the Model A can do all the same stuff for 7 dollars less money IN MY CASE IN THE UK
However, i do share your conerns about pricing.....if the Pi foundation marketted this whole computer as being a $35 dollar computer plus shipping....then THAT is exactly what you should get at least in the USA. (if peope are seeing these machines costing $65 then the whole "buzz" of a real cheap PC computer has gone out of the window reallly)
Vince.
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I'm in EU (Hungary) so between locall Farnell and UK farnell no import duties only shipping (inc. ensurance) and well, local margin.
Also. RAspberry states that purchase is limited for 1 unit, however Farnell here is giving quantity discounts for higher volume purchases.
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Internal Server Error
I can't order anything anywhere.
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Markus
ahh right....Hungary.
just looked at buying one now...from Farnell. (pre order)
Farnell are selling KITS with everything you need. This is a great idea
because it's still a low cost PC that people may be interested in.
You get in a the KIT....a 4 port USB hub...a 4 gig SD card and a wireless mouse
and a bluetoothe dongle for a bluetoothe keyboard.
I think supplying the Pi with just an SD card is a good idea.
Also it's noticeable that the new boards have had the SD slot made flush to the
edge. That is a good ergonomic design. They have also left all the PIN headers
open on the board allowing other hardware to be connected.
The foundation infact make several other hardware boards for the Pi including
the GERT board and later the HIGH DEF camera.
having seen the improvement on the model A getting 256 ram i think the
foundation have made the Pi computer real interesting now
Vince.