Tiny Core Linux
General TC => General TC Talk => Topic started by: Guy on April 10, 2011, 02:11:22 AM
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Before I start, I think the new installation method built into Tiny Core in the latest rcs is a big improvement. Keep up the good work.
Robert said:
Use Windows unetbootin to make USB pendrive.
Point it to the tinycore iso. Under options enter quiet
Unetbootin makes bootable pendrive from windows.
Boot up tinycore pendrive, select Apps icon, note at the bottom right corner is a Set button. Select it to automatically setup all required tce directories and files.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9195.msg50215#msg50215
In the future, there will be more computers without a CD or DVD drive. So operating systems will designed to be installed without a CD or DVD. This type of installation will become very common.
Some questions for Robert and the team.
1. I think it would be a good idea to have a wiki page explaining this method of installation. Are you happy with this idea? I could write it if I have time, but I can't promise I will have time. The main thing to say on the wiki page is, follow the instructions on the unetbootin website. Then a few other things relevant to TinyCore.
2. I think in the future, operating systems will have something like unetbootin available on their websites, to be used for installation. Do you think in the future you are likely to have something like unetbootin designed specifically for Tiny Core, or just use the existing unetbootin? Note, there are Linux and Windows versions of unetbootin, so you would need both.
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Congrats on your 666'th post ;)
1. Absolutely, if you think it would be useful, please write one
2. I don't think there's much value in hardcoding unetbootin to tinycore.iso, it would save what, two clicks?
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Guy,
Thanks for taking an interest in this. I do not have Windows. I wrote that off the top of my head! I still think that unetbootin is no panacea for easy installations.
I say that as one of my test machines will not boot from unetbootin.tcz made pendrive. It does boot fine using my HD/USB install program. And yes, in 3.6 I have added a GUI front end to make the program more friendly.
Perhaps my one machine is the exception and unetbootin is helpful for most. I still have a concern about strongly identifying the device, i.e., UUID and/or LABELS.
Not to toot my own horn, but perhaps a better approach would be to use unetbootin for those starting with Windows and no CD. Use it only for first boot. Because Tiny Core's base loads entirely into ram, one can immediately, select control panel, and select HD/USB install. To re-install using our own installation program. Thereby assuring unique device identification and all necessary directories and files needed for successful operation are created properly.
I need someone running Windows to test this theory and follow-up by creating documentation. I will gladly host in in FAQ or it can be directly entered into Wiki.
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In response to the topic title:
Installing Tiny Core without a CD or DVD drive is already provided for in
http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/distribution_files/
a kernel and a cpio archive are all that are initially needed.
Configuring a bootloader might be the slightly more tricky - and individualized - part.
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Robert
I agree with what you are saying.
Also unetbootin installs to fat32. As far as i know, there is no option to install to a Linux filesystem.
However, it is a way of installing Tiny Core when the person does not have a cd or dvd drive.
This is also why I asked,
Do you think in the future you are likely to have something like unetbootin designed specifically for Tiny Core, or just use the existing unetbootin?
You could include things which make it more ideal for Tiny Core.
I have not used Windows for the internet for many years. I actually ran unetbootin from Tiny Core, just to become familiar with it.
By the way, installation includes the bootcode "quiet."
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What are the limitations and disadvantages of running Tiny Core on a fat32 filesystem?
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Configuring a bootloader might be the slightly more tricky - and individualized - part.
Can anyone come up with a good easy way of configuring a bootloader without running a cd or dvd?
I think the answer will vary, depending on which operating system you are running.
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What are the limitations and disadvantages of running Tiny Core on a fat32 filesystem?
1. Lack of support for traditional Unix permissions.
2. Lack of support for (sym)links.
In consequence, there is no practical limitation about having kernel plus any kind of archive plus any kind of file containing a filesystem (to be mounted as loop).
TC's mechanisms of PPR with extensions being provided as squashfs's and backup being tarred do support FAT*.
However, a disadvantage would be that a user could not have multiple tce dirs with extensions symlinked.
OTOH, according to user preferences it could be seen as an advantage that TC could "peacefully" coexist with a *DOS system on the same FAT* partition. ;)
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Configuring a bootloader might be the slightly more tricky - and individualized - part.
Can anyone come up with a good easy way of configuring a bootloader without running a cd or dvd?
I think the answer will vary, depending on which operating system you are running.
Absolutely true - and more specifically on if a user would want to use an already existing bootloader.
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Contemplating about the topic, netbooting would be an option which qualifies.
Of course in that case a second PC with a netboot server set up is a requirement.
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Not to mention "cloud" netboot services ala netboot.me (boot a gpxe image, chainload via http).
It remains though that one can't install to a linux fs from windows, and without a linux fs it's limited what can be done.
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Heh, I just tried that on bare gpxe :D
- download iso image with correct driver from rom-o-matic
- boot to cmd line (ctrl-b)
- "dhcp net0"
- "kernel http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/distribution_files/bzImage quiet"
- "initrd http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/distribution_files/microcore.gz"
- "boot"
Voila, cloud boot.
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Not to mention "cloud" netboot services ala netboot.me (boot a gpxe image, chainload via http).
Hmm, perhaps netboot.me should update...
http://www.netboot.me/2007
http://www.netboot.me/3006
::)
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See also
http://boot.kernel.org/
Their "Tonight's menu on BKO" does not look like it had been recently updated either, and TC is not featured when it would at least concerning size be more suitable in compared to several existing choices.
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It remains though that one can't install to a linux fs from windows, and without a linux fs it's limited what can be done.
To be fair, there is an - at least initial - limitation with linux fs's other than ext* as well.
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One of the key factor to SLAX's success was the built-in installation tool for WINDOWS users. If you downloaded SLAX arachive to your WINDOWS machine, you could create bootable USB stick without any other tool, learning, searching. No CD, no funny ISO files, no need for CD to burn, etc. Just a simple ZIP archive and few lines install instructions which works. That's all. Please try SLAX USB creation yourself before replying :)
Curaga: Two clicks can be enough to throw it away and look for another toy. I know it by experience. As a Linux geek you can't fully understand ordinary user who is an average WINDOWS user, curious to learn LINUX on easy way.
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Hmm, coincidentally yesterday some person made a claim in #tinycorelinux on freenode that they would have installed a TC derivative from some setup.exe which had been shipped on a CD. Their issue however was that appearantly they could no longer boot into windows, but only into said TC derivative...
:o
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@bmarkus
If two clicks are enough to turn an user away, I doubt he would have been happy with TC...
edit: Checked out slax' doc. Tarball + one bat script to install syslinux, absolutely could be done here as well.
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@bmarkus
If two clicks are enough to turn an user away, I doubt he would have been happy with TC...
edit: Checked out slax' doc. Tarball + one bat script to install syslinux, absolutely could be done here as well.
First barrier is critical. If you are already there and something is working, you are trying to do something with it. If you find a 'TC for dummis' how to install a WEB browser, wireless (Hm..) and modem for US.
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This worked reliably to create the TinyCore USB stick - NO CD/DVD required - done on a W2K box.
Two methods - no NETBOOTIN required - but it does take a few more steps and two free utilities.
Did one on the W2K box - method 2 on a Linux box.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=9195.0
Tested Live Linux today - a fat feature version of NETBOOTIN with a very .y (ok - eye candy) front end.
Worked well for the boot - absolutely - but claims to allow a "Virtual Box" inside of Windows, requiring a software package owned by Oracle. Tried that - bombed (W2KSP4).
However one thing Live Linux did was modify append file - putting in UID tags - which I assume ?might? help with persistence issue I have had.
Also, since my laptop doesn't boot to USB am testing PLOP BOOT MGR to see if I can get a new FAT partition I inserted onto my C drive to boot.
Method:
1. Made USB drive
2. SYSLINUX -f G: (the new blank partition - logical drive - on the physical C: drive) -f required to force
3. Copied all TC files created by netbootin, including hiddens from USB to G:
4. Reboot - Plop takes over - selected partition - black screen.
Same thing with attempt to get Plop to boot to USB drive.
Files in G: root folder include:
ldlinux.sys (hidden)
ubknkern
ubinit
etc. - exactly like a unetbootin install with associated boot and isolinux folders and files below.
Also, installed Robert's latest R2 - seems to work fine. Haven't tried Perl yet, but does install/boot on other laptop that recognizes USB boots.
...and tinkering with Plop to see if I can get it to see and boot the partition (or a USB drive) ...which would partially resolve this "Windows Install" issue by giving TC a place to live - live on a HD in a single HD PC - (not in a virtual box) - by merely selecting a boot option, even when USB boot is not supported and no CD is present. Plop utility and forum support is sterling - as it is here - thanks - so I am fairly confident boot issue will be resolved.
By the way - got a friend to try TC today - Vista user - she almost fell out of her chair for the boot speed.