Tiny Core Linux
General TC => Tiny Core on Virtual Machines => Topic started by: meanpt on December 22, 2009, 04:29:32 AM
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??? My requirements are:
1 - To "graphicalize" the access, reading and writing in any folder and partition of the windows filling system - and no, STOP THE RETURN TO THE PROMPT TEXT COMMANDS OF THE DARK AGES OF THE COMPUTING HISTORY. This requirement is a must.
2- to have the damned internet browsers assuming your keyboard configuration without having to input any commands - at least, allow for the downloading of a graphical interface, as an extension, to configure it.
3- To have the full name of the applications listed in the application browser, as well as having them grouped by type in the user perspective (you know, internet browsing, internet messaging, and so on).
4- To have, at least, a downloadable graphical extension for the uninstallation of any extension or application.
5- To "graphicalize" the tiny core installation options and procedures.
6- To provide real time warnings on the resources, cause after opening some internet browser tabs, the browser crashes.
7- To allow virtual box install the guest additions module
Until then, I'll be weeping ... :'(
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Obviously your requirements are that of a fully featured turnkey traditional hard installed system.
There are several hundred of which that will better suit your demands. So 'crying' over the comparision of a 10MB versus 1000MB system is not very productive, nor will it elicit any sympathy.
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meanpt - tinycore doesn't have anyone who's being paid to take care of those requirements for you.
volunteers might make those features available in a future release - i'm quite sure all of this is possible for a "20MB small core" based on tinycore, BUT only if a few people step up and write the code.
While we wait for that to happen (it might never happen) please consider a distribution like Masonux or Puppylinux, both of which you can find in a search engine.
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My requirements ...
Until then, I'll be weeping ... :'(
Good news
(http://i46.tinypic.com/5nj7rq.png)
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Obviously your requirements are that of a fully featured turnkey traditional hard installed system.
There are several hundred of which that will better suit your demands. So 'crying' over the comparision of a 10MB versus 1000MB system is not very productive, nor will it elicit any sympathy.
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! tinycore already do most of it, but with text commands and a lot of linux knowledge. What I seek are loadable modules from the applications browser to be loaded and unloaded as needed and wanted, to keep the memory,s small foot print and usage. I,m currently writing without the right keyboard configuration which is nonsense for an application destined to be popular among everyone, including windows users, travellers and son one. In some way, it has the potential to be the equivalent to a micro windows mobile. :D
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meanpt - tinycore doesn't have anyone who's being paid to take care of those requirements for you.
volunteers might make those features available in a future release - i'm quite sure all of this is possible for a "20MB small core" based on tinycore, BUT only if a few people step up and write the code.
While we wait for that to happen (it might never happen) please consider a distribution like Masonux or Puppylinux, both of which you can find in a search engine.
Again, I do believe you,re also wrong on the requirements I posted. If I wanted to use puppy I wouldn,t be here ranting and spending time. I do not whish tc to be a 20 mb OS, but to load and unload graphical command/options modules >you know, modularity stuff?< mainly for what tc already does with text commands. But, of course, if the main supporters and users want to keep it within a small club of linux wizards and geeks, instead of extending its critical mass of users, well it,s not up to me to criticize them. After all, I didn,t ask for tinycore, but after know it I did realize the potencial, if easier and with the current and some more features became more accessible through simple and lite GUIs .
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My requirements ...
Until then, I'll be weeping ... :'(
Good news
(http://i46.tinypic.com/5nj7rq.png)
:D I can see you managed to do it. As far as I can figure, you've mapped a E:drive in Windows (is it a virtual shared network folder "à la Virtualbox", or the bunch of complexities needed to create two shared folders in either guest and host OS's through some kind of network) while mounting a shared folder in your \mnt directory.
OK, don't make me spend the Christmas night and the New Year Eve looking for it. Please, kindly describe me your procedures for the OS's (linux guest and Windows host) and virtual box ... please? ::)
[^thehatsrule^: fixed post]
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... kindly describe me your procedures
If you want to do it yourself, try the following steps:
1. Install Sun's Virtual Box (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads) on your Windows system.
2. Start VitualBox with TC 2.7 iso (see screenshot)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/1zyg74i.png)
3. Follow TC installation guide (http://www.tinycorelinux.com/install.html). As last step don't reboot, but shutdown and detatch the iso (screenshot of top2).
4. Start VirtualBox again, open appbrowser and install the following extensions: icewm, xfe, xfi, xfv, xfw, VBox-OSE-additions and reboot
5. Enable VirtualBox folder sharing
a. Use upper Devices/SharedFolders ... to prepare Windows for sharing and call the share 'vBox' (see screenshot)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/beya6s.png)
b. open xfe, create the new file 'startSharing', right click 'Edit' it as follows
(http://i48.tinypic.com/288qlgn.png)
c. make it executable by right clicking 'Properties'
d. Double click that file and the /mnt/win directory should show the content of your vBox share
6. Integrate that feature into your icewm menu and you are done
(http://i46.tinypic.com/24lo7ma.png)
If you are experienced and have done it more than 50 times, the whole process will be finished within less than an hour.
If you lack experience the whole process may need up to a month as there are a lot of details which can ruin your result. So maybe you might wait on my ready made VDI.
Happy holydays all and especially the TC team
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By the way,
if your Keyboard is not an US-keyboard
I,m currently writing without the right keyboard configuration
do the following additional steps
4a. Install the extension kmaps, reboot, visit the folder /usr/share/kmap and decide which kmap file could be appropriate for your keyboard - for example the file de-latin1.kmap
(http://i47.tinypic.com/1hys6c.png)
4b. Visit the folder /mnt/hda1/boot/grub, rightclick the file menu.lst for editing and add a kmap=xxxx (without the .kmap ending) resulting in the following kernel line for example:
kernel /boot/bzImage kmap=de-latin1
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2dad79j.png)
After rebooting your keyboard should work properly.
Good luck
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JoXo009:
Nice step-by-step instructions. A quick question related to Vbox additions extension: Do you get just mouse integration or video exceleration as well?
I have been primarily VMplayer user but recently I have done lots of testing of VirtualBox 3.1 and I see some specific architectural considerations that made me plan to move over to VirtualBox in spite of its future quite uncertain and possibly doomed (If it does happen, current 3.1.2 is good enough).
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Do you get just mouse integration or video exceleration as well?
I never used VMware/VMplayer so I don't know the content of the feature 'video exceleration'.
Virtual Box manual page 60 reads as follows:
Better video support While the virtual graphics card which VirtualBox emulates for
any guest operating system provides all the basic features, the custom video
drivers that are installed with the Guest Additions provide you with extra high
and non-standard video modes as well as accelerated video performance.
Finally, if the Guest Additions are installed, 3D graphics for guest applications
can be accelerated; see chapter 4.9, Hardware 3D acceleration
So I guess, Virtual Box has got no player of its own, but you can install other players and will get the needed acceleration.
Best you give it a try. Its easy to download (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads), install and test.
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JoXo009:
I meant to say I was using VMware VMplayer, which is VMware equivalent of the VirtualBox. VMware Tools that you install in the virtual machine correspond to VirtualBox Additions and provide video enhancement in addition to other functions, like mouse integration. Basically I was curious if the currently available extension - Vbox Additions also have the video enhancement, which means dynamic resolution, acceleration, etc.
Did you install Xorg in the TC VDI?
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The VBox additions extension does include video acceleration, dynamic resizing, mouse integration and more. It does depend on Xorg and friends.
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8) Hi Joxo009
I wish to thank you for your kind support and knowledge sharing.
I did achieve:
1. keymap configuration and
2. file sharing
3. understanding that the vbox guest additions provided in the repository do not provide for configuring a TC screen resolution matching that of my laptop.
Was not successful in installing new menu options or items for sharing/unsharing (hum ... a litle help here would be welcomed, sorry me for being dumb). Just didn't get on how to do it
Ahh ... Didn't find a way neither to "unmount" the sharing
What I did more: played with XFCE and LXDE desktops, but didn't adopt them. Once solved some additional problems, I plan to install one of these desktops and offer the vdi for some kids and no so kid friends, to play with.
Oh, in the meantime I went through the intallation of all the release caditates and stable releases.
I hope you'll keep your good support for which I'm very thankfull and, for shure, others will be too.
Mean ... as meaner it can be ;D
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There is only 1 'p' in weeping.
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My suggestion to folks who want to whine about Tiny Core (though Robert asked me to refrain from issuing too many opinions as my posts tend to get long) but perhaps as someone who:
a) earned my keep in college breaking corporate software - professional "Its broken folks"
b) earned my keep thereafter for 30 years writing and breaking my own stuff
c) have spent 10's of thousands of hours in support calls or face to face
d) have spent decades in both mainframe and novell and windows and run and owned computer stores
e) currently run 100+ web sites comprised of 15,000 + pages, most of which I personally authored - and I test every darn script to make sure it runs right - no errors
... so I am a sort of "BUG and SUPPORT call" reliability FREAK.
Onward:
1. Whining about what Tiny Core lacks without acknowledging that Windows crashes regularly, has to be reinstalled regularly, loses data regularly, doesn't run nearly as fast or boot as fast as TC, can't run on nearly any partition and has a tendency to require or often allow and encourages all your data, docs, videos, images, spreadsheets etc. to reside on the same "DOOMED" partition, whereas TC is naturally suited to "getting data somewhere safe" from the OS - so this is the first key to avoiding a nightmare. Whatever else TC is or isn't, in the world of business, this characteristic of "safety" and "reliability" alone is worth its weight in gold - literally. And if for some reason the TC aps do take a dump (as in last night when I was downloading about 20 TCZ files at once - a feat that is impossible to even attempt in Windows) - you reach into your little 10 - 50 MB install and - ka-poof - the system is back up - running fresh - in less than the time it takes to make a pot of coffee - also worth its weight in gold. To do the same thing in Windows takes me 6 - 12 hours or more and then a week of finding out what I missed. Naturally I could use an Image/Ghost utility for Windows, but then the same would work for TC.
TC is reliable and robust and re-installs in a blink. No whining there.
2. TC is a Linux product and that means things like Skype and Flash and other aps have to be "custom carved" and getting to know a terminal - like DOS - requires "translating habits" from typing C:\ to typing cd /mnt/hda1 and cp instead of copy. And learning why permissions affect the ability to easily execute programs turns out to be a blessing, since in Windows any old virus can run rampant on your system, but in Linux it takes a bit of really screwing up to give anything that sort of permission. Yes, that level of security means you have to learn how to manage permissions. Perhaps a GUI utility to handle some of that would be helpful instead of learning CHMOD. Yes, you spend a lot of time in web based tutorials as you migrate. Yes, as new GUI aps are developed, things will get easier.
But I somewhat disagree with Robert's statement "TC is not the 1000MB system - go use that and it will get easier" etc.
It won't get easier using a fat boy Linux OS. I know. I tried a bunch of them.
TC installed. The others would not or croaked on trying to get online.
The TC wireless utility works well. Knoppix - as much as I respect the gent who made it - did not.
Yes, I had to write a little script to fine tune my fragment packets etc. but now the wifi works better - stays online longer - than the Manufacturer's original package for Windows. As these things are incorporated into TC - one step at a time - then the combination of easy install and re-install, and fairly well tested robust aps makes it a hands down winner for real desktops that need to do real work and do it reliably day after day.
Most PC's in the commercial/industrial world have a tight set niche of aps they run. Once tuned, an OS like TC is the ideal platform for that: tight, reliable and rather easy to re-configure to develop a system that can run the same way for 5 - 10 years without a burp.
Yes, like many Linux products it lacks all the bells and whistles. But my Flash runs better/faster (much), the new music player I have runs far more reliably and is about 20% of the size of the one I had in Windows and my Firefox is working perfectly - no complaints - and it also runs far more reliably, less freezing, than the same ap in Windows, as is my GIMP for image editing, and I am pretty sure most aps I run will enjoy a similar "LIFT" in performance and reliability.
I haven't seen TC choke yet. Of course I am new and I am sure I will, but its going to take some work to break this thing. Yes, some of the small tight packages like BZBOX are rather plain-jane looking - but as Robert has said "Start with minimal and if you want more gloss - at the expense of performance - its probably here in the repo."
To me, that "CHOICE" makes a a lot more sense than being stuck with bloated, slow operating systems (like my posts) that take forever to load and often have so many conflicts going on half of your Windows aps won't even run.
My guess is as TC continues to mature, and new tcz files are created and tested, it will compete just fine with "1000 MB systems" and in fact, on a commercial or industrial level it already beats them since its far more reliable and certainly runs faster. There were things I could not do in Knoppix, Arch, Debian, Ubuntu, Xbuntu, Slackware, Puppy and other distros that I did easily with TC - piece of cake - and while I do have a Ubuntu installed somewhere, I haven't touched it and don't expect I will unless I find TC can't do something really special - required for business - and no one here knows how to get it done.
Thus far everything DOES get done, DOES work, and IS available, and if not, creating a little utility to do it is likely in a matter of time. That "TIME" is certainly faster than waiting for Microsoft to cater to your need and make a new ap because you thought it was a good idea - dream on.
Well dreams can come true at TC and I am a picky in your face b**ch about quality control issues - especially software - I have been for 30+ years and frankly I wouldn't recommend any other version of Linux under any circumstances and don't appreciate it when you folks tell new users to "go try" some other "fat bloated" brand, when you all know they're likely to be even MORE frustrated and experience even WORSE performance installing something else.
Eye candy is not a substitute for fast reliable performance. It doesn't matter if you're typing a doc, editing a jpg, listening to a flash video or making one in a video editor. You need processing speed and a whatever the tool, a reasonable interface. Sometimes it takes time to learn the new interface. Usually we all WHINE AND WEEP about growing pains and learning curves. That's often a good thing: it causes new aps to be developed and problems to be solved...and they'll be solved a lot faster here than at "Microsoft" or nearly anywhere else.
The tutors/admins here are patient and knowledgeable, Robert made an extremely tough, high performance product that has wide-spread appeal and applications in commercial and consumer markets, runs on a variety of hardware platforms, including diskless systems (good luck with the other live CDs and USB installs), and rather than going on about how kewl TC is, I suggest folks do what I did: I spent 6 darn weeks learning it - getting it to run right - and finally have Skype working along with everything else.
Once the "ONE CLICK" install is done, folks won't have to eat that learning curve I endured. That ease of installation, loaded with 1001 aps is a huge Microsoft advantage today - indeed - at least it seemed like it to me at first until I got used to click - installed - done - works - at Tiny Core. It took awhile to get the hang of it, but now I know when I go fetch something the darn thing works. You can't say that about Microsoft at all, and I won't belittle the other Linux distros beyond my other posts - they wouldn't even install right.
Instant "Microsoft" installs are not a panacea and having to do that and reinstall Windows every few months is a nightmare of lost data and hunting down drivers, that TC solved once and for all.
Migrating to a sluggish, bloated Linux box is NOT a prudent solution either, nor is buying an expensive Mac a wise thing to do, when you can have an inexpensive PC running TC and darn near everything you need for home and office - free and reliable and as fast as anything developed in the PC world today.
It took three decades for someone to make an operating system that could actually squeeze the juice out of a CPU and make a 3Ghz machine boot and run faster than an old 286 with DOS 3.33.
Robert did that. I don't know anyone else who has done that except him and the team here.
That suits me just fine.
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This thread kind of sickens me.
If you are so ignorant as to believe that Tiny Core really needs all those extraneous features or that it is meant to target the average user, you're dead wrong. This is not to say you can't get the functionality that you've asked about, but you're going about it as if the community is a paid support team for a commercial product. TCL is far faster, smaller, and more reliable than Windows and most Linux distros, and if you honestly can't appreciate those advantages, we (or at least I) would prefer that you leave.
On another note -- all your issues are separate and should be handled in separate subforums, and in greater detail. You essentially lumped a bunch of requests together in one ugly thread and dumped in the VM subforum for no apparent reason.
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TheNewbie and the opinion "This thread kind of sickens me."
The OP has a wish list.
I hope we do not attack people for posting their desires. Now granny oops I mean grandma I feel your post falls into a slightly different category but still of no use to the OP.
Don't worry I am not going to help either as Joxo009 appears to be more positive.
I regret to hijack this post, but hope we do not have negative posts in support of our ideals.
We risk becoming zealots and unfriendly.
feel free to spank me ...heh heh...no grandma not the cane not the cane.
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This thread kind of sickens me.
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I got curious and read the first post and then read the second post and trust me already 2009 RobertS solved it to everybody's satisfaction so be happy and smile! No need to feel sicken or to weep at all.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=4344.msg22793#msg22793
Grandma has been inactive now for a long time so maybe she has gone to Hawaii for vacation?
The Tornados in USA have been severe so maybe she longed for less wild environ for a while.
aus9 you where that friendly guy over at LQ then. Good to see you active here too. Smile!