Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: johan_se on August 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM

Title: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
I think the possibility of running different Linux in Live-sessions, booting from a USB-stick, is great since it gives you a chance to try out an OS without need to change anything on the harddrive.
I recently tried "Puppy Linux". I created a Live-USB with Rufus in Windows. And I found out, even on a small laptop with only 2 Gb RAM, I could start a live Session with Puppy from the USB-stick and use the function or parameter "copy to ram", so i did apreciate the small size of Puppy.

I am now courious about Tiny core Linux, and I would like to try Tiny Core Plus, which I have read, might could work even with wifi. I downloaded the iso-file called CorePlus-current
( I did try to create a Live-USB with "TC Plus" using Rufus but it didn't work)
I read under the web-page tinycorelinux.net that there was a tool called core2usb.
--- this is how i got the file--->
I choose the category "Frequently asked question" ( under tinycorelinux.net),
and i read through the part of text under,
"How to use pendrives and other removable devices with Tiny core". In this piece of text there was a shortcut ( or link) to download the file "core2usb"  from Sourceforge. I used this link to download core2usb in Windows 10. It turned out to be a zip-file, and when i did unzip the file, the result was one file called core2usb-16 and in windows it was described as a "Python file".
Is this file core2usb-16 supposed to work under "Windows 10"?

When I run the file in Windows I got an error message.
SyntaxError: Invalid Syntax.
I did my best to download the latest support for python script to Windows 10 ( using microsoft store). You can see what version of python I have in the Printscreen (or fraction of Printscreen). Is there anything more i need to prepare? Did i get the right core2usb (or is it meant to run in a Linux OS?)

I should confess, English is not my primary language, (however I have worked many years with software for music production that was only available in English, You can say I am more used to read English instructions than to describe situations myself). I apologize for possible spelling misstakes.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: NewUser on August 14, 2021, 11:45:26 PM
In the core2usb page in SourceForge, click the Files Tab. There, you will find core2usb-1.6.exe . That's what you're looking for. I have used it for years. Your Anti-Virus program may block part of the installation, so pause it our use Defender.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 15, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Thanks for you advice "NewUser", with your instructions I succeeded to download an exe-fil that could be run in Windows 10 without any error-message from Windows. However it was confusing in another way. I did put a 16 Gigabyte USB-memory-stick in the USB-port (the one I would like to use as a Live-USB), and i observed that it was Given the name D: in Windows.  The program core2usb-1.6  could find the iso-file (wich i actually have on an SD-card), but I was never allowed to write to the USB-stick. It showed the information "Selected drive is not empty" with red coloured text. Then i did format the "whole" USB-stick in Windows 10, so that I am sure no file is on the USB-stick. But even after that, core2usb show the same message again, "Selected drive is not empty". When i did format the USB-stick I was however brave enough to give it a name (title), I choose the title "till_tiny_c"  "till" is a swedish word that means "for". Is it neccesary that the USB-stick have a certain name???  or is it wrong to format the stick with FAT32 filesystem like i did?
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: Rich on August 15, 2021, 03:50:05 PM
Hi johan_se
Welcome to the forum.

Read from from this post to the end of the thread:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,24558.msg155967.html#msg155967
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: Rich on August 15, 2021, 04:27:03 PM
Hi johan_se
Sorry, I forgot to answer a couple of questions:

...  Is it neccesary that the USB-stick have a certain name??? ...
No.

Quote
... is it wrong to format the stick with FAT32 filesystem like i did?
No.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: NewUser on August 15, 2021, 08:35:46 PM
Johan, if your thumb drive appears empty in Windows, open a cmd prompt with Administrator privelidges, the run this command:

rd /s /q "System Volume Information"

After that core2usb will work.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 16, 2021, 01:16:19 PM
Thankyou NewUser for your advice.
I did try the command.
I did navigate to the drive that i want to "write over",  ( It took me some time to recall that MS-DOS command  how to change drive  ;) ,  but an exercise is always good ).
When i succeded to change drive, the Windows prompt looked like,
D:\>
Then I tried to run the command,
rd /s /q
The command-window returned a message,
"The syntax of the command is incorrect",
so I did quess that it is necessary to also tell the name of the drive ( although I was already in the root-directory of my D: ).

So in my second attempt i did write,
rd /s /q d:
This time a new prompt reappeared again ( D:\> ) and without any error message. So I assume Windows accepted every part of this command and following parameters ( like d: ).
So then I tried again to run core2usb-1.6
The program will run and Windows ask me if I want to give the program permissions to change things on my computer, and I answer yes. The program core2usb accepts to open an iso-file I have downloaded,  But still core2usb refuses to let me write anything to the USB-stick ( still drive D: )
The button "Install", (which is included in the program core2usb), is still shown with a very "pale grey" text. The button "BROWSE"  is shown in a lot sharper Black colour.

I did then look in the Help-menu in core2usb-1.6  and i choose to read under Help/about
and the small "second-window" that opens show the information,
"Tiny Core Linux USB intaller  v1.6
Markus September 5, 2012"
I assume this means the program was written year 2012 ?
"NewUser" is this the same version of core2usb that you use succesfully this year?
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 16, 2021, 01:38:37 PM
By the way, in My first attempt to download core2usb, it turned out to be a file of the kind "python-script".  Does anyone know what is the purpose of the python-version  of core2usb?

Is it meant to be used in Linux-systems?
I do have a Live-USB with Xubuntu 21.04 that works well  ( as long as I dont try parameter "toram" ). Or are there any other Live-USB-creation-tools  for Ubuntu that has better chance to deal with "Tiny Core Linux" ?
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: Rich on August 16, 2021, 01:40:13 PM
Hi johan_se
----- Snip -----
To make hidden files visible in Windows Explorer so you cam delete them ...
Windows 8 and 10:
Click the "View" tab on File Explorers ribbon and click the "Hidden items" checkbox in the Show/hide section.
 ----- Snip -----
Once you've done that, delete all files on the USB thumb drive.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 16, 2021, 02:06:02 PM
Thankyou Rich for the advice.   I have already checked that the settings for the file-explorer is to also show hidden files,  and there is nothing on the USB-drive ( D:). 
If I use Windows explorer to format a USB-drive just to be a storage drive ( no parameters), should I expect that Windows will add any file or directory to that USB-drive?  I mean I have never told the Windows-Explorer to make a bootable-device, but simple to format the drive.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 16, 2021, 02:43:57 PM
Since you are suspicous there might be something hidden on My USB-stick I have actually booted a Live-session With Xubuntu 21:04    and then I mounted the USB-flash drive that I would like to use to make a LiveUSB-with "Tiny Core Linux". I do set the File manager ( in Xubuntu) to "show hidden files" and there was nothing on the USB-stick ( no directories and no files).  I did Even navigate to this USB-stick  in the Terminal under Xubuntu. And used the command "ls" and nothing was found on the drive. I guess the Terminal is more "straight forward" like it should show even system-files or stuff like that  ( I try to attach printscreens from Xubuntu ). Sorry I happened to write the swedish word for day ( wich is "dag") when i named my printsceen.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 16, 2021, 04:22:50 PM
By the way, since this software core2usb  is  very hard to use, i think it is very sensible to find out. Is this version 1.6, (made year 2012), the latest that is available? ? ?   I actually do recall that i did raise my eyebrows for a couple of seconds when i was directed to sourceforge  by the link on this webpage under "frequently asked questions"  (here under tinycorelinux.net),   because  when looking for the exe-file  you could also se that Sourceforge showed the information "last modified" and there was a date sometime during year=2012 ( i do not remember exactly what month). I mean first of all it seems very user-unfriendly, and for the second,  I do download a newer version of Rufus,  at least once a year. and I have used it ,(with success), to make live-USBs with at least 4 different Linux-distros every year ( Puppy,  Bodhi,  Xubuntu  and Lubuntu ). For example I had a Live-USB with "Puppy Linux " on my USB the day when I read there was a new version of Bodhi, and I felt "this week I would like to try Bodhi Linux instead of Puppy", so I Plug in the USB-stick with Puppy and tell Rufus to write Bodhi to that USB-stick. I do see the information "everything that is saved on the USB-stick will be erased, do you want to continue?", In that moment I do ask myself "am I sure that the only USB-device connected by now is the one i want to overwrite with a new distro?"   I have never by accident installed a new distro to any of my USB-sticks, and as I said, I try more than 4 different distros every year (since the release of Xubuntu 18.04 ), and since Xubuntu and sisters are released twice a year I actually use Rufus more than 6 times a year. If I should by accident overwrite a USB-flash and loose files i wanted to keep, I would never blame Rufus because they give me the info "Everything on the stick you have selected will be erased". If you are smart enough to download an iso-file and an md5-checksum, there is litte probability that you connect a USB-flash stick with important documents, and then ask a program to "overwrite" that particular USB-stick with some linux-distro. So I have to say (using Rufus more than 20 times to make Live-USB:s) this program core2usb  assume that every person who wants to use it must be a total idiot.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: Rich on August 16, 2021, 06:17:13 PM
Hi johan_se
... should I expect that Windows will add any file or directory to that USB-drive? ...
I don't interact with Windows very often these days, but one thing I don't do is assume what Windows will or won't
do by default. This is the memory card for my camera:
Code: [Select]
tc@E310:~$ ls -la /mnt/sdf1
total 96
drwxrwxrwx  3 root root  16384 Jan  1  1970 ./
drwxrwxr-x  9 root staff   180 Aug 16 19:50 ../
drwxrwxrwx 13 root root  32768 Jun 24  2020 DCIM/
-rwxrwxrwx  1 root root     76 Jul  1 17:41 nmdsdcid
tc@E310:~$ cat /mnt/sdf1/nmdsdcid
{9A44C32B-C2AD-44FC-8680-AAD326E4F0D2}
The  nmdsdcid  file was not put there by my camera, Linux, or myself. It showed up when I plugged the card in a
Windows 7 computer. Windows assumes it's OK to mark its territory when you plug in a removable device.

... used the command "ls" and nothing was found on the drive. ...
The command  ls  won't find hidden files. Try the command  ls -la  , that will display all files and directories.

... I do see the information "everything that is saved on the USB-stick will be erased, do you want to continue?", In that moment I do ask myself "am I sure that the only USB-device connected by now is the one i want to overwrite with a new distro?"   I have never by accident installed a new distro to any of my USB-sticks, ...
Not everybody is as experienced as you are. Insisting that the device has no files on it is to prevent accidents.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: NewUser on August 16, 2021, 11:13:26 PM
Johan, once you have cd'd to your D: drive type this entire command:

rd /s /q "System Volume Information"

System Volume Information is a System directory, as well as being hidden. The double quotes around System Volume... are required due to the spaces.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: johan_se on August 18, 2021, 02:11:31 PM
NewUser!  I have already tried to "clean" the memory-stick using,
rd /s /q d:  under Windows, and I did it with administrator privilegies, and Windows executed the command without any error-message.
But still the program core2usb do not let me use the button "INSTALL".
 After that I have also tried to start a live-session with Xubuntu and then I used Gparted to format This small (16 Gb) USB-stick to FAT32 ( Xubuntu is the flavour of Ubuntu that have the Xfce Desktop environmet). Then I rebooted to Windows and found out that core2usb still refuses to write to that USB-stick.
NewUser, what computer did you use when core2usb worked for you? How old is the computer that you could use core2usb on? According to Sorceforge the file "core2usb-1.6.exe" has not been modified since year 2012 ( and you can also confirm this by open Help/About when running core2usb). That means the program is 9 years old. So one idea I have is , could it be trouble if a computer have USB 3.0-port? The computer I use when I create Live-USB:s is an HP-Laptop bought in november last year (2020). It is actually my fathers computer but I know for sure the age, beause I helped him to choose the model, and to order the computer on internet. My own computer is an Asus with the tiniest harddrive ( 30 Gigabyte), and I can no longer run Windows on it because It will show the message I have to download updates, but the harddrive have no more space.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: NewUser on August 18, 2021, 07:00:59 PM
Johan, rd /s /q D: won't necessarily do anything. There is one hidden system directory on an "empty" thumdrive. That directory is "System Volume Information". CD to your thumb drive and enter this command:

rd /s /q "System Volume Information"

rd /s /q won't do anything
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: PDP-8 on October 14, 2021, 10:28:22 PM
Johan - yes, core2usb is problematic on some Windows 10 machines and I've seen your failure mode myself.

Stop tearing your hair out.  You seem already familiar with Rufus, and I use it for a variety of jobs myself, not just writing iso's in a windows environment.  I actually prefer it for formatting sticks as "non bootable", as it really cleans up and formats drives properly.

However many new users may be overwhelmed with the options, not knowing the difference between iso and dd methods.

Therefore the one I recommend for newbs to try is Balena Etcher - especially because it will verify after burn just in case someone got hold of some crappy stick.

That being said, since you already have working *nix systems up and running, why not take advantage of dd available in all of them?

Code: [Select]
dd if=/path/to/downloaded/tinycorexxx.iso  of=/dev/sdX bs=1M status=progress
(Where "X" is the actual device designator, like sdc etc)  The old school way to find this was to put in your new target usb stick, and then run dmesg in a terminal to see what it found at the very end.

To be paranoid, shutdown the box, and then remove the drive.

Note that this only recreates a read-only "virtual cd" so to speak so you can kick the tires. 

Now comes the second step for TC:  you either use the APPS function to download and run tc-installer.tcz and use THAT to write yet another stick - which properly writes TC with it's unique requirements properly.  That is your working stick.

OR if you choose the CorePlus iso, that already contains a bunch of other stuff, including the installer right in the menu bar.  Use that to make your secondary daily-driver stick.

Since you mentioned using Windows 10, for the 32-bit version of TC to work, the computer should of course have secure-boot disabled, and also be able to function with "legacy" modes - adjustable inside the so-called bios setup.

Hth - you've wasted waaay too much time on core2usb.  Use the dd command in your existing linux distributions..


Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: gadget42 on October 14, 2021, 11:16:17 PM
I did not find this topic or thread to be a waste of time at all.
I learned several things I did not know before, which is always
a good thing.

*edited post to add additional information and a link*

Wondered about "System Volume Information" and found several(here is one):
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/system-volume-information-on-external-drive-cant/63fa5478-d7b3-41e2-ba36-283f7a014000

And I agree with Rich that Windows takes undue liberties with external media.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: bmarkus on October 15, 2021, 12:15:33 AM
core2usb is not supported since a long time, it is obsolete. In fact, you do not need it, use UNETBOOTIN or similar tools.
Title: Re: Is core2usb not supposed to work in Windows 10 ?
Post by: PDP-8 on October 15, 2021, 12:50:04 PM
It was a very useful tool in it's time - and thank you for writing it.

With more modern tools, I just think many who were born long after bootable CD's were a thing, don't realize that the initial burn is just the FIRST step to a daily-driver writable stick.

The new bootable usb stick is really a read-only virtual-cd, where it can function with that kind of layout (sce vs tce directories) with external storage and groking how to work in that environment, where to put external persistence and so forth.  Which works, but for some, this is a bit too nomadic and may not understand the whole TC groove or raison d'etre.

For most distro-hoppers, excited by the initial ability to boot, may miss the needed *secondary* step of using either the built-in installer program say from CorePlus - or temporarily downloading and running the tc-installer.tcz and running THAT to lay down the system properly a SECOND time to a different new stick, which allows for persistent storage and read/write as the daily driver.

At first, I think TC's total flexibility throws some for a loop - but stick with it, and the light-bulb goes off and the love begins. :)