Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Q&A Forum => Topic started by: gadget42 on June 26, 2021, 03:54:47 PM

Title: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on June 26, 2021, 03:54:47 PM
AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop -  TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.

TC11.1 uses 5.4.3 kernel (i586)
TC12.0 uses 5.10.3 kernel (i686)

Have searched the forum but didn't see anything specific to this issue.

This machine is the oldest in the collection and the "canary in the coal mine" regarding operating systems.

What do I need to do/get to compile the newer kernel to still be usable with our older machines? Thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on June 26, 2021, 06:29:19 PM
Hi gadget42
TC12 fails isn't much to go on. Perhaps if you provide a more thorough description of what is happening we can
figure out the problem.

What type of media are you booting from?
If you are booting from a USB device, did you use the tc-install utility or a 3rd party program? Did you include the waitusb
boot code?
Are you seeing any error messages?
Does it get to a command prompt?
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on June 27, 2021, 06:02:43 AM
attempting to boot TC12 using a proven cd-r and get this on screen:

Loading /boot/vmlinuz.......
Loading /boot/core.gz............
Wrong EFI loader signature.
early console in extract_kernel
input_data: 0x0071d0ae
input_len: 0x0049a1d1
output: 0x00100000
output_len: 0x009be788
kernel_total_size: 0x00ad4000
needed_size: 0x00ad4000

Decompressing Linux... Parsing ELF... No relocation needed... done.
Booting the kernel.
Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! exitcode=0x00000004
Kernel Offset: disabled
Rebooting in 60 seconds..
_

*and it stops there until the power switch is turned off...

during this testing the hard drive with Win3.1/Win3.11/TC11.1 is removed.

thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on June 27, 2021, 08:38:14 AM
Hi gadget42
A couple of other forum members have had the same issue:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25011.0.html
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25081.0.html

Try the following boot codes one at a time to see if they make things any better:
Code: [Select]
acpi=off  pci=noacpi  acpi=noirq  pnpacpi=off  noapic  nolapic
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on June 28, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Hi Rich, read those forum posts and tried the boot codes(yes, one at a time) but nothing has changed so far.

adding "debug" boot code gave much additional "verbosity" and browsing through the paused digital camera
video footage revealed the following traps:

traps: modprobe[84] trap invalid opcode ip:b7f34081 sp:bf94447c error:0 in ld-2.32.so[b7f1d000+18000]

traps: modprobe[85] trap invalid opcode ip:b7f53081 sp:bfadf3ec error:0 in ld-2.32.so[b7f3c000+18000]

traps: init[1] trap invalid opcode ip:b7ef5081 sp:bfa66acc error:0 in ld-2.32.so[b7ede000+18000]

also read about seemingly similar issues others were having:

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1089838-start-0.html

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/448937/is-ld-so-an-executable

http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=21272.0

Thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on June 28, 2021, 10:35:34 PM
Oh, so libc in 12.x needs more than a 686. I believe it's getting harder to get a proper 486 build.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on June 28, 2021, 11:47:07 PM
Oh, so libc in 12.x needs more than a 686. I believe it's getting harder to get a proper 486 build.

hi curaga,
it would appear so. i was going to look for differences between TC11.1 libc and TC12 libc but haven't yet. i also seem to recall reading about other distros that have started compiling kernels without support for the "antique" hardware. at least it will force me to learn more so that i can continue to enjoy these machines.

any suggestions and/or pointers? thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on June 29, 2021, 12:40:20 AM
glibc was compiled for tc-12.x with:
Code: [Select]
$ echo "CFLAGS += -fomit-frame-pointer -march=i486 -mtune=i686 -Os -pipe" > configparms
..and for tc-11.x with
Code: [Select]
$ echo "CFLAGS += -march=i486 -mtune=i686 -Os -pipe" > configparms
However, in addition, for glibc in tc-11.x, uname_hack was used to force i486, but could not be used for glibc in tc-12.x because it does not compile for linux-5.x kernels.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: andyj on June 29, 2021, 05:16:51 AM
I've seen this in some extensions too. Mariadb and dhcp require -march=i686 or they won't compile.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on June 29, 2021, 07:53:16 AM
I think we’re looking at the opposite problem - that it was asked to compile for i486 and actually compiled for something else without giving any error or warning.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on June 29, 2021, 09:35:45 AM
gadget42, you could try compiling the newer glibc on TC 11 on that old box. Then replacing the files incl. ld-so inside the TC 12 initrd with the ones you built. It may take many hours with an old cpu.

Instructions for doing this should be under the TC 12 web tree, release/x86/src.

However, the K6 has 3dnow. If the glibc build tunes to the host cpu, libc built on a k6 may not run on newer processors (since they lack 3dnow).
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on June 29, 2021, 12:05:17 PM
Huge Thanks to Rich, curaga, Juanito, and andyj for all your helpful insights!

We have decided to re-evaluate our criteria for the machines we maintain.

If it boots TC12 it stays and if it fails then it goes. So this machine will go.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on June 29, 2021, 02:04:26 PM
Hi gadget42
You could use an older version of Tinycore and turn the machine into a file server. Install a couple of 320 Gig hard drives
for storage. Boot from a CD to install to a small boot partition (1 or 2 Gig) on one of the drives. Tell the BIOS the first
drive is only 1 or 2 Gig and the second drive does not exist. When the kernel boots, it will detect all of the drive space
since it figures it out instead of relying on the BIOS.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on June 30, 2021, 05:44:28 AM
I played around with uname_hack and glibc to see if it made a difference - you could try to boot 12.x after replacing the existing rootfs.gz with the file here:

http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 01, 2021, 12:34:02 PM
I played around with uname_hack and glibc to see if it made a difference - you could try to boot 12.x after replacing the existing rootfs.gz with the file here:

http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

Thanks for your efforts! I did make a new boot cd with your modified rootfs.gz and it boots in the next machine in line(a compaq presario 566mhz machine),
but for some reason the amd k6-2 machine has become flaky with reading some cd disks but not others. I disassembled it earlier today and will reuse some
of the components and the case to freshen up another machine. Again, thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on July 01, 2021, 11:15:18 PM
Did the presario fail with the normal 12 cd?
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 02, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
I played around with uname_hack and glibc to see if it made a difference - you could try to boot 12.x after replacing the existing rootfs.gz with the file here:

http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

I think this is important so I did my own test. I do have a AMD K6-2 PC (if the sticker's correct) but it's not set up (by the way "166MHz" in the subject line seems to be a typo, Wikipedia says the slowest K6-2 made ran at 266MHz). Instead I tested on a standard 120MHz Intel Pentium 1 PC which normally runs Damn Small Linux (I'm posting from it now). It's a more concrete benchmark for i586 support anyway.

Booting from HDD (IDE, ext2 formatted) with Grub 0.97 (0.91 doesn't work for TC as I found out, I booted 0.97 from a floppy).

First I booted TC 10.1 (core.gz) - Boots + runs OK

Then I tried regular TC 12.0 (root.gz only) - Fails init dies immediately after starting, with illegal op code (or similar error) b7fb7081 in ld-2.32.so

Finally I tried Juanito's test_i486 root.gz for TC 12.0 - Boots + runs OK

So that uname hack seems to solve the problem.

Perhaps Juanito is already well aware of it, but there is a suggestion in the glibc FAQ (http://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/FAQ) that covers this:

Quote
How can I compile on my fast ix86 machine a working libc for an older and slower ix86? After installing libc, programs abort with "Illegal Instruction".

glibc and gcc might generate some instructions on your machine that aren't available on an older machine. You've got to tell glibc that you're configuring for e.g. i586 with adding i586 as your machine, for example:

* ../configure --prefix=/usr i586-pc-linux-gnu

And you need to tell gcc to only generate i586 code, just add -march=i586 (just -m586 doesn't work) to your CFLAGS.

Note that i486 is the oldest supported architecture since nptl needs atomic instructions and those were introduced with i486.

Maybe I'll try one of my 486 PCs some time, but setting that up will be more difficult.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 03, 2021, 08:14:00 AM
Did the presario fail with the normal 12 cd?

Compaq Presario Model 7596, Celeron 566Mhz, 192MB ram, raw mobo test-benched w/ cd-rom
https://www.cnet.com/products/compaq-presario-7596-mt-celeron-566-mhz-128-mb-30-gb/

TC12 LiveCD boots fine(other than the colors are somewhat "off"...the background is a "brownish-tan" instead of the normal blue)

Modified TC12 LiveCD also boots fine(and has the same color issue, must be something to do with the motherboard graphics)

Thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 03, 2021, 10:36:43 AM
I do not have a physical 486 CPU, but I wonder why is not a modern QEMU capable of properly simulate a 486 (only) CPU ?
Qemu parameter -m for machine type can do it. I do not know what additional CPU instructions set are specifically for a 586 CPU or AMD K6 etc. But these additional CPU capabilities should already be known in full flags, because 586, 686 have been history CPU for (tens of) years. So qemu can simulate in full a 486, 586, 686 CPU, as needed. (I think).
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on July 03, 2021, 11:03:24 PM
This was tested many years ago, qemu was too permissive. Tell it to emulate a 486 and it still allowed newer instructions IIRC.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 04, 2021, 01:51:40 AM
This was tested many years ago, qemu was too permissive. Tell it to emulate a 486 and it still allowed newer instructions IIRC.

I guess that's not so surprising because people wouldn't usually check/complain that software is running properly in the emulator when it shouldn't.

Another approach is to analyse the instructions in the binary using something like this (https://superuser.com/a/1161931). But I think running on the real hardware would actually still be easier and more accurate.

It's just a case of copying vmlinuz and root.gz to the HDD of a 486 PC, then boot eg. The All In One Boot Floppy (http://schierlm.users.sourceforge.net/bootdisk/) and boot from the HDD using Grub. The only time-consuming bit can be getting the files onto the HDD given that they won't fit onto a floppy, though it's not a big hurdle.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 04, 2021, 01:52:38 AM
@curaga: When you say few years ago, I think is about 2 -3 years ago, so it was about qemu 3.x, maybe.
The latest versions of qemu 3.x, 4.x, 5.x  were issued on: https://download.qemu.org 
qemu-6.0.0.tar.xz    2021-04-29
qemu-5.2.0.tar.xz    2020-12-08
qemu-4.2.1.tar.xz    2020-06-25
qemu-3.1.0.tar.xz    2018-12-11 (=> 2.5 years ago)

I did not think that such an important bug (to allow extra CPU instruction not specific to 486) was not reported in the mean time. Anyway, it was just an idea, to properly know what is the minimum CPU type requested for each TC version. It was not officially announced that 586 is the minimum CPU.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 04, 2021, 02:08:16 AM
i486 is still the minimum cpu for tinycore - for some reason "-march=i486" was ignored by glibc in 12.x, but there seems to be a fix.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 04, 2021, 06:43:03 AM
I played around with uname_hack and glibc to see if it made a difference - you could try to boot 12.x after replacing the existing rootfs.gz with the file here:

http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

I think this is important so I did my own test. I do have a AMD K6-2 PC (if the sticker's correct) but it's not set up (by the way "166MHz" in the subject line seems to be a typo, Wikipedia says the slowest K6-2 made ran at 266MHz). Instead I tested on a standard 120MHz Intel Pentium 1 PC which normally runs Damn Small Linux (I'm posting from it now). It's a more concrete benchmark for i586 support anyway.

Booting from HDD (IDE, ext2 formatted) with Grub 0.97 (0.91 doesn't work for TC as I found out, I booted 0.97 from a floppy).

First I booted TC 10.1 (core.gz) - Boots + runs OK

Then I tried regular TC 12.0 (root.gz only) - Fails init dies immediately after starting, with illegal op code (or similar error) b7fb7081 in ld-2.32.so

Finally I tried Juanito's test_i486 root.gz for TC 12.0 - Boots + runs OK

So that uname hack seems to solve the problem.

Perhaps Juanito is already well aware of it, but there is a suggestion in the glibc FAQ (http://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/FAQ) that covers this:

Quote
How can I compile on my fast ix86 machine a working libc for an older and slower ix86? After installing libc, programs abort with "Illegal Instruction".

glibc and gcc might generate some instructions on your machine that aren't available on an older machine. You've got to tell glibc that you're configuring for e.g. i586 with adding i586 as your machine, for example:

* ../configure --prefix=/usr i586-pc-linux-gnu

And you need to tell gcc to only generate i586 code, just add -march=i586 (just -m586 doesn't work) to your CFLAGS.

Note that i486 is the oldest supported architecture since nptl needs atomic instructions and those were introduced with i486.

Maybe I'll try one of my 486 PCs some time, but setting that up will be more difficult.

attached photo of bios screen regarding 166Mhz(all i know and can go by is what the computer says).

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 04, 2021, 06:55:28 AM
In fact:
Code: [Select]
$ qemu-system-i386 -cpu 486 -m 1G -cdrom /mnt/sdb1/tmp/Core-12.0.iso -boot d..will not boot, whereas the modified rootfs.gz will boot.

..though I too recall that qemu was too permissive
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 05, 2021, 12:27:52 PM
Please note that glibc has been recompiled using uname_hack to force it to compile for i486.

rootfs.gz and the *Core* iso's have been replaced with ones containing the new glibc - as there is no corresponding change to CorePure, the version number has not been changed.

There is no need to update unless you have an i486 or similar.

downloaded, good md5sum, good cd burn(boots fine in other machines), still fails on the amd k6-2 166mhz machine. using debug i get:

traps: wbar[1181] trap invalid opcode ip:b7ac0484 sp:bf97ad58 error:0 in libgcc_s.so.1[b7ac0000+16000]
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 05, 2021, 04:45:38 PM
For what it's worth, the current TC12 core.gz (md5: a20452c6d09feabfdda7a20304479956) does boot on my Pentium 1:

menu.lst:
Code: [Select]
title Tiny Core 12 i486 - Core
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/tc12_486/vmlinuz
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/tc12_486/core.gz

I'll try on a 486 at some point.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2021, 12:58:52 AM
traps: wbar[1181] trap invalid opcode ip:b7ac0484 sp:bf97ad58 error:0 in libgcc_s.so.1[b7ac0000+16000]

<sigh> I was wondering if that might happen - (re)confirmation at least that "qemu -cpu i484" cannot be used as a test.

I'll take a look at a fix.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2021, 02:50:24 AM
I recompiled libgcc_s.so.1 and libstdc++.so.6.0.28

If somebody with an i486 or similar could test from here: http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

..it would be much appreciated.

Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 06, 2021, 01:10:04 PM
I recompiled libgcc_s.so.1 and libstdc++.so.6.0.28

If somebody with an i486 or similar could test from here: http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

..it would be much appreciated.

tested and microcore boots to the commandline successfully on the amd k6-2 166mhz.
will there be another update of TinyCore12.x to facilitate the complete iso w/gui?
(i always have trouble trying to put together an iso by myself...lol)

Thanks!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 06, 2021, 05:09:02 PM
If somebody with an i486 or similar could test from here: http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/

..it would be much appreciated.

Note that you need more than 8MB of ram to load vmlinux + rootfs.gz into - I didn't think of that for my first 486 booting attempt.

Second attempt on a 486 laptop with 16MB RAM is coming, but complicated by a dead floppy drive.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on July 06, 2021, 10:47:11 PM
16mb is very likely not enough either, the faq says an old microcore required 28mb, so probably at least 32mb for current versions.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 07, 2021, 12:17:00 AM
<sigh> I was wondering if that might happen - (re)confirmation at least that "qemu -cpu i484" cannot be used as a test.
So I should take home that the latest and greatest qemu 6.0 is not OK to properly test a 486 CPU?

@ curaga: could you please tell me, what is the minim resonable RAM and what TC_x86 version to run on a 486 CPU are then?
Maybe a list with fields like (minim RAM, desirable RAM, CPU type, tc version) will be a nice guide for new TC users?

Because if the RAM (16-32 MB) is only to boot a linux kernel, with the purpose to rescue (use some shell comands , posible from busybox), then I think there are already other less demanding linux versions. The small FLTK GUI will not help much for basic commnads (mount, editor etc). What else could be done with tC12_x86 on a 486 CPU with so less memory? maybe mainly for (remote, head less) servers.

PS: Maybe a warning, or a statment should be made, what is the purpose for a 486 CPU compatibility for a TC12 (5.10.3 kernel) if it will be (mostly) not practical on phisical old machines?
Somethink like: "Dear TC users, for 486 CPU with max 16 MB RAM (or whatever), please limit yourself to TC4.x (or whatever)."
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 07, 2021, 01:15:14 AM
So I should take home that the latest and greatest qemu 6.0 is not OK to properly test a 486 CPU?

I used the extension from the 12.x x86 repo - 3.1.0
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 07, 2021, 01:32:45 AM
tested and microcore boots to the commandline successfully on the amd k6-2 166mhz.
will there be another update of TinyCore12.x to facilitate the complete iso w/gui?

Thanks for testing.

Core/TinyCore/CorePlus isos reposted
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 07, 2021, 01:41:10 AM
16mb is very likely not enough either, the faq says an old microcore required 28mb, so probably at least 32mb for current versions.

while i had the amd k6-2 166mhz on the bench i figured i would experiment with ram amounts.
using Juanito's latest MicroCore12(from post):
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25098.msg160124.html#msg160124
the boot fails with 32mb but succeeds with 64mb
after the successful boot the root filesystem shows it is using approximately 42mb
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: vinnie on July 07, 2021, 04:49:35 AM
This is incredible, a modern distro that run in a pc of 20+ years old  ;D
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on July 07, 2021, 06:01:49 AM
Hi nick65go
... what is the purpose for a 486 CPU compatibility for a TC12 (5.10.3 kernel) if it will be (mostly) not practical on phisical old machines? ...
There is still hardware being made that contains Vortex processors. Some of those processors claim to be 686 compatible
but really are not.  Google  vortex86 mini pc  or  vortex86 pc104  for current hardware.

Some people re-purpose thin clients. These can have processors by VIA, SiS, National Semiconductor, etc. that may
either be 486 based or have quirks that make them not fully 686 compatible. A great site about many thin clients is:
https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hware/hardware.shtml

Tinycore (and this forum) have users from all around the world. For various reasons (availability, financial, etc.) some
users may not have access to more current hardware. As a distro, Tinycore does its best to be inclusive and not push
any users out.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 07, 2021, 07:08:55 AM
more bench testing. TC12 posted today(20210707) by Juanito runs on the amd k6-2 166mhz machine.
with respect to ram, it won't successfully boot with less than 128mb(tried 32mb, then 64mb, then 64+32mb...no joy).

*bonus data: dug out our oldest TC1.3rc3(march, 2009) LiveCD and it booted right up with the 64mb stick installed.
*bonus data: with only the 32mb stick installed the kernel panics(kernel panic not syncing: out of memory and no killable processes).

HUGE KUDOS to Juanito for the extra effort, labor, and time!!!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 07, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
Are you using Core or Tinycore (gui)?
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 07, 2021, 09:29:11 AM
Some of those processors claim to be 686 compatible but really are not.  Google  vortex86 mini pc  or  vortex86 pc104  for current hardware.
...
that may either be 486 based or have quirks that make them not fully 686 compatible.
Thanks Rich! this was the info that I missed.
My concern was not about kernel size (near the same for various tc versions) 2-4 MB, but about applications demand for RAM.
For what I see, not all old apps are ported, but new versions of them.
Sorry if I gave you the impresion that I want to push out TC users. They just need to have resonable expectations, to know what they enroll at.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 07, 2021, 09:36:40 AM
Are you using Core or Tinycore (gui)?
normally i just download and use TCxx.x(TinyCore...and assuming all TC/TinyCore are gui)
however, as per your request to test a Core(microcore/mc) i did try out the cli
(ref: http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,25098.msg160124.html#msg160124)
(requesting test of: http://tinycorelinux.net/12.x/x86/release/src/toolchain/test_i486/Core-12.0.iso)
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on July 07, 2021, 10:06:28 AM
@ curaga: could you please tell me, what is the minim resonable RAM and what TC_x86 version to run on a 486 CPU are then?
Maybe a list with fields like (minim RAM, desirable RAM, CPU type, tc version) will be a nice guide for new TC users?

Because if the RAM (16-32 MB) is only to boot a linux kernel, with the purpose to rescue (use some shell comands , posible from busybox), then I think there are already other less demanding linux versions. The small FLTK GUI will not help much for basic commnads (mount, editor etc). What else could be done with tC12_x86 on a 486 CPU with so less memory? maybe mainly for (remote, head less) servers.
I don't have any further info than the faq. I do not run 486s myself.

It's a best effort basis to support as much hw as possible. If the cli or gui version boots for a given RAM, it will run basic apps of that environment. Heavy apps have their own requirements.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on July 07, 2021, 10:16:48 AM
Hi nick65go
... Sorry if I gave you the impresion that I want to push out TC users. ...
Not at all. It was a fair question, the answer to which may not be obvious to everyone.

Quote
... They just need to have resonable expectations, to know what they enroll at.
True. Some apps now require more advanced instructions (sse2, sse3, etc.) such as some video players.
I think Firefox now requires not only a 686 but  Xorg  as well.
And I think there was something that required  Xorg-3d  because it needed to be built against QT5.
So it's getting harder and harder to run with just a 486.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 07, 2021, 02:49:34 PM
Hi Rich
Yes it's getting harder and harder to run with just a 486. So I tried to clarify what advantage will bring lets say a new TC13_x86 for a user with an old 486 CPU?

1. For kernel: no new devices for old 486 machine architecture ISA/PCI. No perceived speed execution. Maybe some security patches (but not needed for TC4 because were introduced only from TC8 forward lets say).

2. For applications: new versions are bigger (ask for more RAM), or requesting new CPU instructions not present in 486 CPU.

IMHO, back-compatibility with old 486 CPU is practical if more old apps versions (like we already have: xmms-gtk1, beaver-gtk1) will be in the new TC13_x86 tcz repository. Of course you can say that users just download them from old TC{3, 4.... 12} but old apps can drag old or incompatible dependencies (ex: see fifth-browser)

Myself I solved this manualy by un-squashing few different tcz and recombined them to have all libraries versions in a new tcz.
ex: libpng.so.1 (from TCx) and libpng.so.2 (from TCy) now are all aside libpng.so.3 (from latest TCz) into libpng.tcz
To do "tce-load -iw libpng.tcz" is now a pain in the back, if not done upstream in repositories.

I saw in forum that re-compiling old tcz with the new gcc compiler will make bigger size appls (how crazy is this gcc progress?). But I think few tricks can be done to bring old appls to live in new TC13 (486 compatible).
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 07, 2021, 05:27:00 PM
16mb is very likely not enough either, the faq says an old microcore required 28mb, so probably at least 32mb for current versions.

Yes I found another old 486 laptop with 20MB RAM and a working floppy - the bootloader finishes and Linux starts booting, but then it dies with a suggestion to use the "root=" parameter in the kernel line and lists a bunch of ram(x) options to use for it (trying a few always results in an "out of memory" type error).

I don't really understand where all the data is coming from - maybe for decompressing rootfs.gz? But I tried booting an uncompressed rootfs file and it caused another boot error, though there must be a way to do that. Or maybe a TC feature (compressed swap space in RAM?) that I need to disable? I won't have time to do any research for a while.

On my Pentium 1 which has 80MB RAM + 100MB swap partition, core.gz runs fine but booting a TC 10.1 Core Plus CD it gets stuck loading extensions, which probably is from running out of RAM. A bigger swap partition might help at that stage though, so RAM isn't entirely a hard limit on these old PCs if you can get the base system loaded up.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on July 07, 2021, 06:07:44 PM
Hi CNK
... Or maybe a TC feature (compressed swap space in RAM?) that I need to disable? ...
That would be the  nozswap  boot code.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Juanito on July 08, 2021, 01:12:25 AM
normally i just download and use TCxx.x(TinyCore...and assuming all TC/TinyCore are gui)
however, as per your request to test a Core(microcore/mc) i did try out the cli..

OK, so:

32mb < Core < 64mb
96mb < Tinycore < 128mb

..if I understand correctly
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 08, 2021, 01:48:07 AM
normally i just download and use TCxx.x(TinyCore...and assuming all TC/TinyCore are gui)
however, as per your request to test a Core(microcore/mc) i did try out the cli..

OK, so:

32mb < Core < 64mb
96mb < Tinycore < 128mb

..if I understand correctly

yes, you are correct. from what i observed i do believe that if someone "fiddled" with either/both of them(TinyCore/Core) they both might successfully boot with the lesser amount of ram(but they would soon run out of ram and/or become unusable/unreliable).

also i am assuming you saw my bonus data post on the TC1.3rc3:

32mb < TinyCore-TC1.3rc3 < 64mb
(and again, i am assuming that fiddling around with boot codes and such might result in a successful cli/terminal session with the lesser amount of ram...but with no real reliability/usefulness)
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 08, 2021, 02:05:19 AM
Hi nick65go
... what is the purpose for a 486 CPU compatibility for a TC12 (5.10.3 kernel) if it will be (mostly) not practical on phisical old machines? ...
There is still hardware being made that contains Vortex processors. Some of those processors claim to be 686 compatible
but really are not.  Google  vortex86 mini pc  or  vortex86 pc104  for current hardware.

Some people re-purpose thin clients. These can have processors by VIA, SiS, National Semiconductor, etc. that may
either be 486 based or have quirks that make them not fully 686 compatible. A great site about many thin clients is:
https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hware/hardware.shtml

Tinycore (and this forum) have users from all around the world. For various reasons (availability, financial, etc.) some
users may not have access to more current hardware. As a distro, Tinycore does its best to be inclusive and not push
any users out.

the TL;DR version might read:
TinyCoreLinux-current-version aspires to successfully boot any-where/any-time/any-machine/within-reason
(using cd/dvd/usb/hdd/ssd/etc - as always your mileage may vary - not responsible for roadkill/magic-smoke)

+1 for the parkytowers website reference!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 08, 2021, 06:51:41 AM
my test on windows_10, with qemu_5.1, to see what minimum RAM TC ask for.
take it with a pinch of salt (can be bugs in qemu implementation for win10), but at least we know some rough limits.
To boot virgin TCxx.iso, I used commands similar with:
"\qemu51\qemu-system-i386.exe -cpu max -m 30 -L vgabios-stdvga.bin -cdrom TinyCore-4.7.7.iso -hda sda-empty.qcow2"
Code: [Select]
tc_ver kernel   RAM-min GUI
4.7.7   3.0.21  30 MB  cli
4.7.7   3.0.21  36 MB  gui
--
6.4.1   3.16.6    36 MB   cli
6.4.1   3.16.6    128 MB   gui now working (bug)
7.2     4.2.9       64 MB    gui now working (bug)
--
12.0    5.10.3    56 MB  cli
12.0    5.10.3    64 MB  gui
PS: just because tc12 booted, does not mean that you can run many (or simultanously) programs in the tiny free RAM available after boot.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: jazzbiker on July 08, 2021, 07:50:43 AM
Hi nick65go,

I don't know what does qemu means about TinyCore 6.4.1, but I have one Pentium MMX with 64M of RAM which runs TC 6.4.1 with GUI and without any problems. Of course it has 256M of swap and is much more comfortable with CLI, but it is almost always on and has runtime in the range of months. It is I guess 25 years old - serious guy! We are good friends :) besides Pentium is equipped with F00F bug (!) and BIOS is buggy (I was not able to test new TC12 486 version by Jaunito, sorry).

Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 08, 2021, 11:40:16 AM
Maybe qemu has some bugs (both running from linux or windows). I checked again, this time from TC12_64 with qemu_6.0, using commands like:
"qemu-system-i386 -accel kvm -cpu 486 -m 30M -cdrom TC-4.7.7-K_3.0.21.iso"
This assume a PC has no HDD (so no swap allowed), just pure CDROM (with virgin TCxx.iso) and RAM.
Without a physical PC to test, qemu is the next best instrument, when no user reports are provided from real hardware tests.

tc_ver_Kernel     GUI/CLI  RAM-minim_MB
TC-1.4-K_2.6.26.iso  CLI   32MB+ qemu_6.0 bug

TC-4.7.7-K_3.0.21.iso CLI  30MB
TC-4.7.7-K_3.0.21.iso GUI  36MB

TC-5.4-K_3.8.13.iso   CLI 128MB+  qemu_6.0 bug
TC-6.4.1-K_3.16.6.iso CLI 128MB+  qemu_6.0 bug

TC-7.2-K_4.2.9.iso    CLI  40MB
TC-7.2-K_4.2.9.iso    GUI 128MB qemu_6.0 bug

TC-8.2.1-K_4.8.17.iso CLI   42MB
TC-8.2.1-K_4.8.17.iso GUI   50MB

TC-9.0-K_4.14.10.iso  CLI   46MB
TC-9.0-K_4.14.10.iso  GUI   50MB

TC-10.1-K_4.19.10.iso  CLI  48MB
TC-10.1-K_4.19.10.iso  GUI  52MB

TC-11.1-K_5.4.3.iso   CLI   52MB 
TC-11.1-K_5.4.3.iso   GUI   54MB

TinyCore-12.0-K_5.10.3.iso CLI  56MB
TinyCore-12.0-K_5.10.3.iso GUI  60MB (issued on 07 July 2021)

Summary: qemu shows that
- With 16 MB RAM core can not be run.
-Core (CLI) needs MINIMUM 32 MB RAM, and a basic Tinycore (GUI) could be run in 64 MB RAM. I suspect qemu has a problem with its CD driver simulation.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: jazzbiker on July 08, 2021, 12:58:05 PM
I rechecked my Pentium without swap at all. Note, that this is not .iso boot but standard install with extlinux, XVesa and flwm. One more note - laptop is offline and is booted with "nodhcp".
These figures are not exact values, it is offline, if it is important I can carry screenshots through flash drive.
Pentium MMX, RAM 64M, HDD 4.3G, TC 6.4.1

base noswap nozswap nodhcp norestore - 58M total 16M used
vga=788 base noswap nozswap nodhcp norestore  -  58M total 16M used
vga=788 noswap nozswap nodhcp - 58M total 55M used (immediately after boot)
after 'sudo cache-clear': 30M used. XVesa + flwm + aterm
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 08, 2021, 03:22:12 PM
Hi jazzbiker,
If you work offline with max 64MB RAM, then maybe you can shave 4.4MB from memory by deleting /lib/modules/5.10.3-tinycore/kernel/drivers/net. After booting with a script on-demand (flexible), or better before booting (shrink or build a different modules.gz for boot-loader).

For restrictive RAM but large HDD size, the best could be: many small statically linked utilities, (like a busybox split in pieces) and each piece statically linked with uClib, sym-linked from HDD/CD, so not to pre-load it in RAM until you need that appl. Hm, but then is not TC anymore, is nano-core.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: jazzbiker on July 08, 2021, 11:22:02 PM
Hi nick65go,

Thanks for the advice, I think You are quite right about RAM saving method. I don't use this laptop for something important, it is really slow :) HDD has I guess IDE interface and has reading speed around half a megabyte per second :) Sometimes I use it for small temporary tasks, like testing some snippet in C or in Lua. I enjoy the fact that TinyCore can run even on such ancient hardware, just to remind myself that TinyCore is one of the World Wonders of our days :)

I have the question about busybox. I was trying to examine memory consumption by busybox utilities, and noticed that once loaded (probably init) then all other busybox utilities reuse the same code, which is already resides in RAM. Am I right?
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: nick65go on July 09, 2021, 12:22:37 AM
Hi jazzbiker,
My oldest /slowest PC (Dell mini 10, has 8+ years old?) has already 1GB RAM. So my "studies" for minimum RAM for a small/rescue linux (not necesary tinycore) were focused on virtual machines (VM). The pristine (virginity) boot state of pseudo-HDD is not a concern for VM, so goal was to use less RAM for guest, from main host RAM.

TC is wonderfull for 64+ MB RAM. For 32Mb up to 64MB RAM the number of applications are VERY limited in scope (for me). Maybe something like DSL (damn small linux) is more suitable. For basic/primitive things (partitioning, formating, text edit, audio, even basic network) I am still looking at Kolibri linux, with 8 MB RAM demand ;) or wonders like http://www.toms.net/rb/ (http://www.toms.net/rb/) for less than 4 MB RAM.

About busybox: as long as just someone call a busybox applet (like grep, from /init script?), then all busybox code loads in RAM (and stays in RAM as long as there is still free RAM) and give speed to other busybox-applets (like you later call the mount applet), without more RAM consumption.
My aproach thinking was a little slow speed but less RAM consumption. Load "mount" or "grep" when/if I need them (not so often).
You see, one size does not fit all cases. But for very low RAM, exceptional methods are summoned.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on July 09, 2021, 04:12:04 AM
Hi jazzbiker
... I have the question about busybox. I was trying to examine memory consumption by busybox utilities, and noticed that once loaded (probably init) then all other busybox utilities reuse the same code, which is already resides in RAM. Am I right?
All of the busybox commands are just links back to  /bin/busybox.  Run the command  ls -l /bin  to see that.
Busybox checks to see what name was used to run it to decide which command to execute, something like this:

Code: [Select]
#include <stdio.h>

/******************************************************************/
int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
printf("My name is %s\n", argv[0]);

return(0);
}


Code: [Select]
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$ gcc testlink.c -o testlink
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$ ln -s testlink mylink
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$ ls -l
total 20
lrwxrwxrwx 1 tc staff     8 Jul  9 06:55 mylink -> testlink
-rwxr-xr-x 1 tc staff 15140 Jul  9 06:55 testlink
-rw-r--r-- 1 tc staff   180 Jul  9 06:54 testlink.c
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$ ./testlink
My name is ./testlink
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$ ./mylink
My name is ./mylink
tc@E310:~/xyzzy$

Whether you rename the  testlink  binary or call it through a link, it will always know what name (and path) was
used to run it.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 09, 2021, 12:45:20 PM
...
TC is wonderfull for 64+ MB RAM. For 32Mb up to 64MB RAM the number of applications are VERY limited in scope (for me). Maybe something like DSL (damn small linux) is more suitable. For basic/primitive things (partitioning, formating, text edit, audio, even basic network) I am still looking at Kolibri linux, with 8 MB RAM demand ;) or wonders like http://www.toms.net/rb/ (http://www.toms.net/rb/) for less than 4 MB RAM.
...
after visiting http://www.toms.net i fell down a rabbithole and somehow ended up at https://wiki.osdev.org/User:Johnburger/Demo/Overview which was interesting enough to share.
(although i will refrain from the linkstorm that would be required to climb back out of that hole...lol)
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: jazzbiker on July 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Core/TinyCore/CorePlus isos reposted

Hi, Juanito!

New rootfs version boots successfully on my old Mobile Pentium MMX, family 5, model 8, 64M RAM.
Previous version issued message about BIOS bug (something wrong with ACPI) and then hang with panic, I was wrong to expect that this bug was the reason.
The new version reports the same BIOS bug and boots successfully! You are wizard!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: Rich on July 11, 2021, 09:26:52 AM
Hi gadget42
the TL;DR version might read:
TinyCoreLinux-current-version aspires to successfully boot any-where/any-time/any-machine/within-reason
(using cd/dvd/usb/hdd/ssd/etc - as always your mileage may vary - not responsible for roadkill/magic-smoke)

+1 for the parkytowers website reference!
Yeah, I can be overly chatty at times. :o
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on July 11, 2021, 03:51:19 PM
"nozswap" makes no difference for my 486 with 20MB RAM. Also tried "initramfs_async=0" but it doesn't help either. I looked around the internet to find out how to boot an uncompressed initramfs image, but surprisingly that really doesn't seem to be supported.

Ever determined, next I'll try doing a "HDD install" of core.gz's contents to a CF card and try booting it in an IDE adapter. Not the Tiny Core way, but it should do for testing whether the binaries run on a 486 at least (and could run the "proper" way on one with more RAM).

That may not be until next weekend...
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on October 03, 2021, 07:06:45 AM
still messing around with this old amd k6-2 166mhz, 512mb, 360kb 5.25 floppy, cd-rom, no hdd, running dsl-4.4.10 from a livecd, using bon-echo(firefox 2.0) for this forum post. if this was all i had...i'd start a fire and use smoke signals...lol. [insert smoke-signal emoji here]
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on November 25, 2021, 02:31:54 PM
Ever determined, next I'll try doing a "HDD install" of core.gz's contents to a CF card and try booting it in an IDE adapter. Not the Tiny Core way, but it should do for testing whether the binaries run on a 486 at least (and could run the "proper" way on one with more RAM).

I finally got one of my 486 laptops to boot TC12 (with the i486-rebuilt rootfs.gz from earlier in the thread). Plenty of problems with running out of RAM (16MB in that case, using a laptop with an easily accessible HDD bay), but no "illegal instruction" type errors. The exact CPU model is a 486DX4 100MHz. So TC12 now gets my tick of 486-compatibility.

The details are that I did a HDD install (on a real HDD because the CF adapter proved physically difficult to accomodate), along with a 60MB swap partition. I still had lots of trouble with running out of RAM while the tc-config script was running at boot, so I ended up making lots of modifications to that script. The most important changes were probably commenting out the line "/sbin/udevadm trigger --action=add 2>&1 >/dev/null &" to disable "hotplug" support, and moving the enabling of swap partitions directly after fstab creation (compressed swap in RAM was disabled with the nozswap bootcode). Starting udevadm doesn't really work even after swap is enabled (though with swap it doesn't crash the whole system at least).

Once booted, "free" shows only 6MB of RAM available, so I guess the Linux kernel must claim 10MB for itself. It's possible to boot without the swap space enabled and use the shell, but swap is required if you load extensions otherwise it runs out of RAM when loading the required kernel modules (I commented out the pre-loading of the "loop" and "squashfs" modules in tc-config).

If it had around 80MB of RAM (I believe some 486 motherboards allowed for this, probably designed for server applications) it might be practical for some tasks, as RAM seems to be much more of a limit than the CPU (this being among the fastest models of the 486).

PS. @gadget42: I'm posting this from DSL on a Pentium 1 (Dillo web browser) - it ain't all that bad!
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on November 26, 2021, 01:57:16 AM
The Vortex86 models have 486/586/686 with gigs of RAM.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: CNK on November 26, 2021, 04:44:00 PM
The Vortex86 models have 486/586/686 with gigs of RAM.

Good point. There's also the Frix (https://github.com/archlabo/Frix) project that implements a 486SX PC architecture in an FPGA, and uses TC5 for Linux.

That project page notes that the Linux kernel in TC requires the i486DX CPU models which have an FPU. They actually replace the kernel with a custom-built one.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: curaga on November 27, 2021, 12:46:31 AM
Yes, we don't think supporting 486sx is worth it. FPU emulation code just for that one cpu.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: PDP-8 on November 27, 2021, 04:17:33 PM
Don't get rid of that machine.  It would make a wonderful demo at the VCF vintage computer faire - especially since the cdrom works, and even better if the floppy works too.

The start of the busybox concept was well introduced with Tom's Root-Boot floppy:

http://www.toms.net/rb/

I used it as a concept demo to prove to myself that I could put things like early Slackware on a similar box back in the day feeding it 15 to 16 floppies.  But Tom's root-boot was a mindblower just to see something other than ms-dos.

Heh, so that box isn't your daily-driver, but it is so old and parts so un-obtainium, that it might serve another purpose as a historical trip back into time.

That is, assuming you can find Toms root-boot and floppy media.  Although the cdrom might not be as impressive at the faire, still you can show the tie-in to the early busybox concept to how well it has worked to this day.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on November 28, 2021, 02:30:56 AM
thanks. will try experimenting with tomsrtbt again. seem to recall having trouble figuring out how to create a working cd.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: PDP-8 on November 28, 2021, 03:55:42 AM
Well, on a more serious note, perhaps the latest 32-bit Slitaz would keep it functional somewhat.  Still at kernel 3.9 something I believe, yet has a reasonably up to date busybox and desktop utils.

But the distro is totally bloated at 50mb or so. :)  Give Slitaz a try, or one of the low-mem options they have.  But, just like a TC iso, that is only the initial live part of it.  You'll want to use tazpkg utils to create a daily driver with your specific needs on it.
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on March 02, 2022, 07:03:30 AM
just now took the time to test TC13 on the amd k6-2 166mhz 500mb...runs fine.
(included pic that should have been with the first post in this thread...better late than never)

sharing is caring

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 04, 2022, 02:53:02 AM
stumbled into this thread accidentally but decided to add one more note.

circa apr/may-2022:
this mobo and approx. 50 other machines of varying completeness(as well as around 10 boxes of parts/peripherals/etc) were donated/gifted to another regional enthusiast/mad-scientist and crew/family/etc.

speaking/thinking regarding "mad-scientists" reminded of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mad_Scientists%27_Club

sharing is caring
Title: Re: AMD K6-2 166Mhz, 512MB ram, desktop - TC11.1 runs fine TC12 fails.
Post by: gadget42 on July 04, 2022, 05:28:59 AM
just noticed that this thread has been read 9972 times in the year-ish since it was first posted.

wonder what keyword/subject/topic drove that traffic?

things-that-make-you-go-hmmm

sharing is caring