Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Bugs => Topic started by: grandma on June 20, 2021, 01:24:54 PM

Title: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: grandma on June 20, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
RE: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash

Should I post this in the forum?

1. I ran tests of every distro.

2. So far the only one that DOES NOT CRASH daily is 3x.

3. The "SPLATTER" happens when FLWM_TOPSIDE is loaded.

4. It appears as a blue window that has lost its content and no longer responds. Even KILLING it is useless.

5. It happens on 5 different devices and over the past10 years on others as well.

6. Only 3x runs without flwm_topside. I use JWM and it works fine. In fact the fonts and colors all look a lot better; less "CHEAP".

7. But if I remove flwm_topside from ONBOOT.LST instead of a mouse I get a fat ugly unresponsive X on the desktop; nothing works until I hit CTRL-ALT-DEL, dump to a terminal prompt etc. and I assume this means I have lost the multi-thread windows and any display since any programs like editor or firefox won't work in that environment.

8. HOW can a parameter be added to flwm_topside so if it HAS TO RUN it behaves - which would be best if it didn't play any role in fonts, displays or anything else.

9. I understand you have compiled CALLS into various Aps specifically to this windows manager and it seems strange to me - negligent actually - that you would include a notorious crash-and-burn application that makes TC look cheap and behave like a go-cart made of unglued PVC pipe into every distro since 3x.

10. I'd like to know if you have any ideas on how to give TC a birthday - a windows manager that works - or give FLWM a birthday - a windows manager that behaves. Having designed systems for hospitals and nuclear facilities as much as I love TC - especially the fast, like, .y 3x, there's no way I can give a crash-and burn product to a client. It really limits your appeal and I have to wonder if it's intentional.

Bill Gates and the President of GM died in a plane crash and upon reaching the Pearly Gates Bill asked "Why didn't you incorporate Microsoft into GM cars?" to which the head of GM replied "We didn't think customers would want a car that crashed 20 times a day."

On a good note, every version from 7X on has produced VLC and Firefox audio when I either load alsa in onboot.lst or after booting i run a script to load every alsa tcz then load pulse audio then do a PULSEAUDIO --SYSTEM call then load VLC then load Firefox and audio has been consistent - a huge problem until I figured this sequence out.

I also have to run a script to go through every amixer setting to raise volumes and unmute devices because for whatever reason when first loaded many of them are muted.

On another good note with a script that loads a user.js file into the /home/tc/.mozilla/firefox/someletters.default profile folder I can stop the silly nags Firefox has, as well as configure videos and audios and pages to present more gracefully. It makes the newer versions of Firefox almost functional again.

I am sticking with an older 50x Firefox (whatever came with TC8x) using the Firefox-ESR tcz. Just about everything after that was broken by Mozilla before it was released.

On another happy note, the old Firefox 4.0 that I have running on TC 3x is still the best looking and most functional/least likely to crash or display stupid/intrusive messages. TC 3x and little old Firefox 4.0 have done well for over a decade out performing anything thereafter, save the SSL library issue and the fact they no longer play videos/audios - sigh.

On another cheery note JWM from TC3x works great in 8x - but no top bar - but who cares? It splashes a desktop and if I can get flwm_topside to retire it has worked well on 3x and I wonder if it can handle 7x - 12x TC as well.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: Rich on June 20, 2021, 01:44:59 PM
Hi grandma
... 7. But if I remove flwm_topside from ONBOOT.LST instead of a mouse I get a fat ugly unresponsive X on the desktop; nothing works until I hit CTRL-ALT-DEL, dump to a terminal prompt etc. and I assume this means I have lost the multi-thread windows and any display since any programs like editor or firefox won't work in that environment. ...
That big X means X is loaded but you don't have a window manager loaded. If you prefer JWM, load that instead.

Quote
... 9. I understand you have compiled CALLS into various Aps specifically to this windows manager and it seems strange to me - negligent actually - that you would include a notorious crash-and-burn application that makes TC look cheap and behave like a go-cart made of unglued PVC pipe into every distro since 3x. ...
I doubt that. If you are going to make that type of claim, back it up with proof please.
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: curaga on June 20, 2021, 10:50:18 PM
This very much sounds like you tried to use the same onboot.lst from 3.x onwards. Each release has brought some modularization, meaning there are now more entries in onboot.lst than before. If you keep the same old list, you will be missing components. There is no forced WM choice.

Look at the included list on the CD of each version.
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: grandma on June 21, 2021, 09:26:04 AM
Dear Rich and Curage; First,

...Dear Rich

Thank you for the reply and suggestion I load JWM instead of FLWM_TOPSIDE.

I tried that and still get the BIG X, but on your suggestion I will tinker today and see if I can find a boot error somewhere in the system. Is there something besides DMESG that shows what's going on when 8x loads?

As for the "CLAIM" it "FEELS LIKE A "CHEAP GOCART"; since it doesn't have the "crash-splatter" behavior of FLWM_TOPSIDE because somehow I got it to work without it, 3x does not. It's something in the fonts and colors - that light blue borders - and the consistent behavior of a crash with an open terminal window, notepad, gnumeric, firefox etc. that leaves a FLWM_TOPSIDE window all blue and unable to hear keystrokes, mouse, even the top right corner X stops working, that makes it feel "cheap" or more accurately, "unable to be used for any production environment or God forbid, a home user unable to grapple with a splatter who would thus just walk away. It's not you. It's not TC which I adore.

Side note: A client had a medical software product she had sold to hospitals for several decades that was so good XEROX had a "nice guy" apply to be her CEO promising lots of new customers. She bit and that rat stole her software, fed it to XEROX who opened a competing firm, she found out about a year later, sued, which rattled in courts for 10 years, she finally won and retired with a $3M settlement.

Right before she did she asked me if I could "package up" her formula into an EXE instead of the nightmare XLS macros she had, and refine her process, which basically calculates the value of UNCOLLECTED DEBT a hospital has on their books; often $100M or more.

Her process ran 5 hours to process 2 weeks of debt for 1 hospital.

My first version, created with TCC (Tiny C) compiled on a WINE EMULATOR on TCE 3x so she could run it on her Windows Laptop was able to process 6 months of data for 2 Hospitals in the same 5 hours. So that's 26 weeks or 13X times her XLS macro speed times 2 hospitals or 26 times faster than her macros. It took me about 90 days to make that little EXE to run on Windows.

She was impressed so I asked her if she wanted to pay to make it go even faster. She liked that idea and I built a TCC version on TCE 3X - no Wine Emulator/Windows - just a TCE3X USB boot stick, and I did refine some of the program processes in that version, and even added some calcs I "invented" which improved her product.

It processed 6 months of data for 2 hospitals or 26 times more data than her macros processed, and it ran in 72 seconds...not 5 hours.

So when I say I love TCE, especially lil old 3x, for its' small, tight, reliable, super-fast performance, it's not a "CLAIM"; it's a cherished fact. It is thanks to your work and Curaga and others that I was able to dump Windows back in 2010, build a nice little package that does all my office, video/audio editing, manage 200 domains spanning 30000 pages etc. and if I had to go back to Windows I'd just die.

The only "nasty" I see in TCE that I haven't cured is the FONTS - some kind of resolution thing I don't know how to cure, and this FLWM TOPSIDE issue which makes it extremely unreliable, crashing several times a day, and which TCE 3X does not suffer from.

I will try your suggestion and tinker with the JWM on TCE 8X and let you know, although frankly I doubt 8X would process her data as quickly as 3X did.


Dear Curaga,

I ALWAYS use the onboot.lst that comes with each DISTRO, then tinker ONE LINE AT A TIME and reboot to see if any changes I make affect some other package.

I paid for college with a job debugging software...and have written code since 1979 - enough to fill several 40 foot sea containers to the roof with greenbar binders - so I'm kinda careful about "NOT BREAKING" what you folks made.

 I hate systems programming. You folks love it and I love the fine art you make...so I always enjoy the dish as it came out of your oven before I plaster it with peanut butter, garlic and jalapeno sauce.

;)
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: jazzbiker on June 21, 2021, 09:42:36 AM
Nice story, better than dozens of candies, thanks, grandma :)
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: Rich on June 21, 2021, 10:00:42 AM
Hi grandma
... As for the "CLAIM" it "FEELS LIKE A "CHEAP GOCART";  ...
The "CLAIM" I was referring to was this:
Quote
... 9. I understand you have compiled CALLS into various Aps specifically to this windows manager ...
I'm not aware of any  Aps  being tied to  flwm_topside.

I currently run  flwm_topside  on TC4, TC9, TC10 with no issues.

... On another cheery note JWM from TC3x works great in 8x - but no top bar ...
Why are you using the TC3 version on TC8?  Why not install the TC8 version?
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: grandma on June 21, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
OKOKOKOKOKOKOK GRANDMAS A RETARD....


Rich said "TRY RUNNING JWM BY ITSELF (if you don't like FLWM_TOPSIDE).

I said "Geee I tried that...and still got the fat X mouse thingy...but will try it again."

Curaga said "Are you using the ONBOOT.LST that comes with the Distro?"

I said "Yeah, I always do...."

But what I found was a little SCRIPT I have that checks for downloaded libraries so I don't strain your mirrors...dug up old JWM on my system - the 3x version - put it in the 8X repo - and when booted that without FLWM_TOPSIDE in onboot.lst things splattered.

I checked the byte count vs the JWM you provide for 8X and sun-ova-gun ya know it be a different compile...who wulda thunk?

So I got the 8x JWM, removeded FLWM_TOPSIDE in onboot.lst - and bingo, bango, bongo, it has the look and feel of 3x I luved so much - no FLWM (Frigging Lousy Windows Manager)....

I still have a bit of moderate blue borders - but not the super light Alice Blue FLWM had. I'll tinker...

BTW - someone said JWM lost it's top bar when run on 8x - but I have mine. HOWEVER, the X (upper right) to open a TERMINAL does not work...hmmm...no biggie .... and the X to SHUTDOWN/REBOOT does not work either so I am going to figure out how to get rid of the top bar - kinda useless...no biggie.

Now if anyone has any idea how to improve FONTS I'd be thankful.

As for music/audio/video - which died long ago with a new laptop running tce3x - and works fine on 8x - and THAT is the key to a happy user.

As for WEB SITES nagging me to upgrade Firefox - the ESR provided with 8x does NOT upgrade automatically, so with a USER.JS stuffed into the /home/tc/.mozilla/firefox/?????.default folder I can disable most of the nasty stuff Firefox has slowly added to their browser, making it a comfortable ride again...and by setting a bogus User Agent google and youtube think I have the latest version....which I don't ever want to install.

It appears Firefox, like Google, has a lot of Techs who need jobs so they plaster their websites and products with really stupid, broken features to show how smart they aren't...when KISS has generally proven more comfortable for most folks....my two cents.

On the question of WHY I RUN TC3X? I always will.

Its fast, small, reliable, I have all my office and publishing tools there and while I MUST create a modern environment with 8X, Firefox, Abiword, Gnumeric, GIMP2, Epdfview and a few other tools for clients (or they'll think I have "Stuck in Boomer" disease) I like the reliability of the system I have...and it's greased lightning fast...which is why I created DAMNFASTLINUX.COM - which features Tiny Core - 3x and soon the 8x distros - with specific office tools and scripts etc.







Title: [Solved] Re: 6X thru 11X tests w/ results incl good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: grandma on June 21, 2021, 10:19:39 AM
I dunno if I am supposed to put SOLVED in this or if you do it, so I did it.
Title: Re: 6X thru 11X tests and results including good audio and a consistent crash
Post by: grandma on June 21, 2021, 10:31:23 AM
Dear Rich,

Also "Why I still use TCE 3X"...

I needed AUDIO and VIDEO in Firefox and VLC which 3X used to have but broke as my laptops upgraded.

And I needed a Firefox that played media - which also worked in 3X, but no longer.

And I needed a Firefox that didn't constantly NAG to upgrade, or automatically upgrade as the latest Firefox always does on my Android.

And so for years I struggled to get audio/video to work in various TCE 4X through 11X and FINALLY got a script to load all ALSA first (NOT in ONBOOT.LST), then load Pulse Audio, then do a sudo pulseaudio --system - and only then, it loads VLC2, then loads Firefox-ESR that comes with 8x - which is modern enough to do a fine job of audio/video, plays everything nicely, and with some customized user.js file I stuff into /home/tc/.mozilla/firefox/abcxya.default folder, stops the nags, stops the auto-updates, allows popups and autoplay, sets a home page etc. and Firefox-ESR is a well behaved, good looking browser again.

So now, with the JWM issue solved I am building the 8X upgrade so I have it and can pass it on to clients and use it for my own use when I want to hear music or see a website with media.

But when I am WORKING I still usually run 3X. Why?

Perl5 hasn't changed much...not for my use as a backend CGI while managing 200 domains on a server and
Apache2 is still the most reliable webpage server, which also hasn't changed much for my use for 10 years, and all the OTHER tools, like Leafpad and GIMP2 I frequently use are all faster and easier to use on TCE 3X than any other version I've tried...so...

Speed, reliability, ease of use...except for audio/video needs why wouldn't I cherish lil old TCE 3X? When configured as I have it she's a gem.