Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Base => Corepure64 => Topic started by: labeas on May 22, 2019, 03:07:04 PM
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If you bought a new laptop over the last few years, it would be a
UEFI/Win10-based system.
The one I bought 3 years ago needed a lot of pain/effort to find
how to handle the UEFI restriction and install linux from USBstiks.
Now this new UEFI/Win10 laptop does not follow the same sequence to
avoid the UEFI restriction; which together with grub2-multi, makes
for much problematic confusion.
grub2-multi.tcz seems to avoid the UEFI restriction, but given samples
fail with strange error messages [and dead kybrd].
Let's see if there's a <man grub2-multi> ?
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-> cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
-> Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
root@box:/home/tc# which grub2-multi
root@box:/home/tc# cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
grub2-multi is already installed!
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#
???
[EDIT]: Added code tags. Rich
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Hi labeas
... -> cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
-> Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
root@box:/home/tc# which grub2-multi
root@box:/home/tc# cd /mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# Rce-load -i grub2-multi.tcz
grub2-multi is already installed!
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#
The which command is used to find programs. There is no program called grub2-multi in grub2-multi.tcz.
grub2-multi.tcz seems to avoid the UEFI restriction, but given samples
fail with strange error messages [and dead kybrd].
If you don't show the commands you typed and the error messages you received then no one can help you.
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...
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi# which grub2-multi
root@box:/mnt/sdb2/CRG/Grub2Multi/grub2multi#
The which command is used to find programs. There is no program called grub2-multi in grub2-multi.tcz.
hi
to find the programs in the grub2-multi tcz extension
try
find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ type -f
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> to find the programs in the grub2-multi tcz extension
> try
> Code: [Select]
> find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ type -f
? You mean:
find /tmp/tcloop/grub2-multi/ -type f
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-> df == ...
/dev/loop17 476 476 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/links
/dev/loop18 1216 1216 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/mc
...
/dev/loop23 8 8 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/wifi
/dev/loop24 60 60 0 100% /tmp/tcloop/wily
-> find /tmp/tcloop/mc/ -type f | wc -l == 235
-> find /tmp/tcloop/wily/ -type f | wc -l == 1
wily: the killer app from the 90s 2nd only to gpm !
-> find /tmp/tcloop/gpm/ -type f | wc -l == 14
You boys have failed to answer THE QUESTION which appears in
"Subject: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?"
If you're forced out of your comfort-zone:
to USBstik-install tinycore to a new Win10 [of course] laptop,
how do you handle the UEFI problem -- which seems to be never
mentioned in TC documents ?
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Hi labeas
... You boys have failed to answer THE QUESTION which appears in
"Subject: Why TC-fora no BIOS/UEFI queries?" ...
I don't understand what you are trying to ask.
If you're forced out of your comfort-zone:
to USBstik-install tinycore to a new Win10 [of course] laptop,
how do you handle the UEFI problem -- which seems to be never
mentioned in TC documents ?
Installing to a USB stick is covered here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,19364.msg119228.html#msg119228
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Ah, think I understand the actual question now. :)
Solution: Windows 10 hardware is never guaranteed to work with ALL linux distros. But basically one does this:
1) Only run distros that have paid the tax for the microsoft approved uefi key.
2) OR, be sure to turn OFF "secure boot" and try again.
3) Make sure you have burnt the iso in a UEFI compatible format. That is, there must be a small vfat uefi boot partition, followed by another partition with the filesystem format of your choice.
You can run the distribution's own tools to make this, or follow instructions on how to do so manually.
Or, you can grab a burning tool for Windows like RUFUS, use the GPT (uefi only) format for burning and try that. Turn secure boot off recommended.
Cross fingers - some Windows 10 laptops are harder than others to get running. Seek advice and reviews from other Linux users *before* purchase.
Ever try running Crux on a 2005-era Apple G5 Imac, with a so-called "open boot" system? Same kind of deal. You have to put some work into it - nothing is plug-n-play guaranteed. That's part of the fun.
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I'm writing from W10; so can't see [to just paste my evidence].
PDP-8 wrote:-
> <or disable secure boot>
AFAIR the <Aptio 2015> laptop allowed toggling secure-boot
able/disable.
I failed to find such facilities on this <Aptio 2018>.
But our <senior researcher> reports that the supplier admits
that secure-boot/lock-out is not [yet] implemented.
So mere F7 after power-up, shows the list of all USBs plugged.
I guess the fact that syslinux-based USBstik of <Aptio15 box>
fails to boot: is because it needs UEFI ability?
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I have just one of my machines that doesn't like TC64 and syslinux. So I used grub 2.x and that worked.
I see you've tried it before and it didn't work out so well? I think we're all tapped out on ideas since we're not sitting at your keyboard and noticing that one variable that gets missed.
As a diagnostic aid, I can tell you that the YUMI-UEFI-0.0.16.exe version will properly burn TCpure64 to a stick. If you want persistence, then make tce/optional directories in the root of the stick. Add set gfxpayload=1920x1080x24 (or whatever your native res is) to the proper grub file. I'll stop at this point since YUMI support is a different thread. It doesn't have to look pretty at this point, but just boot properly.
Look for the UEFI specific version:
https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
If that works, then like me, you know you can take off the training-wheels and follow Juanito's excellent guide about grub burning and figure out where you may have gone wrong.
Other diagnostics include - can you boot a recent Knoppix? Can you boot Porteus 4.0? If you can, there is no reason you can't boot TCpure64, and may give you hints on where to look for what appears to be a corner-case (like my one weird box).
.
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Thanks, I've filed that..
It's very unsatisfactory to just suck-it-and-see without UNDERSTNDING
the underlying theory; since I started IT from discrete transistor
bistables and hex-coding 8-bit uprocs.
==crg
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I can relate. As frustrating as it might seem, using diagnostic techniques such as these can help you find that one variable that seems to be missing or newly introduced in your environment.
I've been there - bang head against wall, get ego bruised, and then succumb to what shouldn't matter - and then there it is!
Trust me, you'll feel better. :)
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Since writer:PDP-8 has shown awareness of the problem we face:
>1) Only run distros that have paid the tax for the microsoft approved uefi key.
>2) OR, be sure to turn OFF "secure boot" and try again.
>3) Make sure you have burnt the iso in a UEFI compatible format. That is, ...
does he accept that new/cheap laptops will have problems booting linux?
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Rather than seek <propriety> solutions, I advocate general/universal weapons:
UEFI <government> has made available the UEFIshell, which seems very powerfull,
but needs competent-familiarisation, rather that the M$pook attitude:
"what can I get, which someone ELSE has already made to solve this problem".
It's better to know the <algorithm> to multiply ANY 2 integers, than the
result of some currently usefull products.
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Have any Tinycore readers, who will share/expand our knowledge:
used/tested the UEFI-shell?
I'll write [with inevitable typos, since can't yet see how to
copy/paste from UEFI-shell results] my efforts to leverage UEFIsh's power;
ie. to really see into the guts of OS/kernel...drivers, <pciBus>...
First I tried to <extract basic *nix cmnds> like: ls, pwd, cd, df ...
==> replies to colaborators will follow.
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HEllo there again all,
Yes. BIOS is a quite uncompromising OPERATING SYSTEM.
The vendor will determine which other vendor(s) hardware specific
can interface with IT and the top level user OS.
BIOS is universal in some senses.....but perhaps not interchangable
above preliminary levels.
FOr example, network Cards have BIOS......and so do Router(s). and other
hardware. Vendor
Infact a lot of existing hardware contain FULL PC's inside them. Sometimes several
FULL PC's are inside a part of hardware....such a flat panel screens.....and
cisco routers .
Those PC's are dedicated PC computers.
THey are systems on chip....PC computers. They run dedicated operating systems
That exist pertaining to SLIGHT USER alteration of a few attributes......otherwise all closed and reliable.
The BIOS can be updated and it's not unusual for the hardware vendor to offer
that update for free.
In respect of recent Laptops. I know the last 100 milllion Laptops from AMD
American Micro Devices........all those Laptops have DUAL BOOT bios for both
Android and The Msoft. THis requires huge licensing laws and corps need to be very
careful what information they divulge.
UEIF and modern BIOS still are constrained to the hardware vendor(s) such as Msoft with the x86 archictecture who have a 200 line code injection. This is the legal and sizable (tiny code) that has made Msoft the monster $$$ that it is.
Msoft have the Cart before the horse.....with IBM on the x86 licensing which was signed for all global x86 manufactured PC's.
The boot process is propreetory and owned by Msoft Via Ibm and the x86 architecture license. This is WHY when you buy computers they have the Microsoft logos and symbols advertised on the the machines.
This license, however, has moved in time....with AMD having more leverage due to them
having a 50 to 50 clause with INTEL with all global x86 manufactured computer machines ....since they often have an AMD GPU next to the INTEL CPU......
see above (for Why AMD are able ) to release the 100 million Laptops that i refer to.
One of the biggest deals on earth.....in corporate tech terms....and still exists.(ibm/Msoft)
You are always able to Legally file against Msoft for such clauses. Many DO and win.
thx
Vin
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addendum
Advanced Micro Devices AMD
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My daily driver is a ThinkPad T400 laptop with Libreboot (libre version of Coreboot) and Tiny Core Pure64 10.1 -- everything works perfectly (video, sound, storage, wifi). There are no BIOS-related issues whatsoever that I can tell.
I just wanted to provide this report in case any TC user is contemplating Libreboot. With Libreboot, you can say good-bye to all BIOS/UEFI nonsense.
BTW it's a pain to install Libreboot, but you can buy refurbished ThinkPads with Libreboot pre-installed (and BIOS/Intel "Management Engine" disabled). There are several outfits that offer such laptops (Vikings, Technoethical, Minifree, and Libiquity come to mind).
Just my $0.02
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SIr GNU
Thankyou for the comment (reply).
THat is great that your systems are functioning while very unique.
Some time....i once heard of "bios tatoos" as the sort of Vendor logo
that appears on boot screens...... and i worked in a place where we removed
those tatoos.
Sometimes BIOS battery's are starved and this can be tricky with Laptops.
since they may refuse to boot up.
That is a good set up.
Onward then Sir...........there......if your system works......then great.
Here i won't mess with stuff i know little about. The closest i have got to any learning is the hardest of hard commands....it stops any UEFI bios Msoft machine from booting up.
but that isn't right. Then one is left with hardware that won't work or give the world wide web......
Sir, i hope your machine gets onto the world wide web......
There are some good UK outlets.
https://[Deleted, not relevant to this thread.]
(they are very very good........traded as Morgan Computers....earlier.
Thx
PS.......Sophie Wilson. (invented the ARM cpu)........interesting.
V
[EDIT]: Link removed. Rich
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Hello there again,
Yes.....proprietary BIOS per vendor. Some vendors have wider reaching "over-shawl" of many manufacturers. It's complex.
When you study computing (to degree level) several times you .......you start to appreciate these complex distributions of global hardware.
So for example, there are approx about "one hundred motherboard" manufacturer's on earth.....(seen the list). Though not nearly so many BIOS
creators, because that code ownership "contractually" over-rides the user OS
and all manufacturers of hardware that agree on those global distribution rights.
see previous post.
When you consider that there are likely factors of many many many trillions of x86 pc's you can start to get a bigger picture.
So , when you look at global hardware 99 percent of the time it's embossed with
a emblem similar to the letters UR......in reverse.
THat is the corporation that deal with the "underwriting" and the Risk of developing new hardware at such attempts and prophecy to "finance" the endeavour.
mostly that is something that end corporations and consumers never suffer.
It always falls to much higher levels (corporate) to decide how much
responsibility they want in the ownership and Intellectual Property Rights.
Some can use Seabios. That is open and works on x86 hardware.
The American Megatrends is one of the largest. BIOS vendors. THey product
the hardware chips and the software inside. [[Firmware actually (middleware)]]
There is also Energy Star Bios. .....very large manufacturer.
.......in times of old we made bios as part of earlier than degree studies and they were for dedicated computers inside consumer electronics such as interfaces of
Hoover-Matic products.....Dyson. Also......Micro-professor. That is a modelling system to develop microprocessors on.
The idea to require extraneous links to legal third party suppliers of say "OS"'s such as Msoft.......is pretty minimal.
Probably , though as i mentioned........corp's file against Msoft and often win.
perhaps there are different bios again within Chrome-machines.....?
(Chrome-books)
Global handsets have a bios which i believe is there from root. The handheld systems offer you to access it to repair boot-loops and such. The thing is that Google
"acquired" Android and didn't make a single part of it themselves. Likely IPR theft on a grand scale indeed.
Whether or not users of global hardware realize, they DO NOT own Microsoft windows and have purchased just a licence for it. That is implicit to lots of
intrinsic software that drives global hardware.
No consumers will have ownership at any point at all.
It's "intellectual property rights" legislation>
many new manufacturers revert to life-time patents which is the only possible mechanism for commercial enterprise in this sector.
It is sometimes easier with other licensing restrictions which are allowed on the operating and licensing of very large corporate amounts of hardware...
i understand that people want to get away from monopolisation. That's silly
because we live in a technology oasis and ownership and these licenses are
always totally inexpensive any rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS
Thx
V