Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 06:39:50 AM

Title: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 06:39:50 AM
Pardon me my question, which may not be on the level of expected expertise here...
When I boot TCL 2.1 LiveCD on my older laptops (Thinkpad T23 with native screen resolution of 1024x768) desktop GUI is not started. I get a command prompt after messages telling me about Xvesa server error and that screen mode is not found.  I tried vga=792, 791 and 790 boot codes, with the same effect. I believe 791 is default.
If I do tinycore Xsetup on boot, it gives me resolution menu to chose from. I select 1024x768x24, or 1024x768x16 (the same as TCL default), then select mouse, after which desktop starts properly. How do I find the (vga) bootcode which will make TCL start desktop? I understand this is not TCl but Xvesa issue I am dealing with...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2009, 06:45:42 AM
I'm not at a tc machine right now, but I think the default is 1024x768x32 - you can check this by looking in ~/.xsession - which might not be supported by your older machines?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 07:53:37 AM
Hi Juanito,

I understand the default is vga=791, which is 1024x768x16. I think 1024x768x24 is vga 792,  but in any case neither of these vga codes get me to the desktop. No matter which one I use I get command prompt rather than TCL desktop. However if I go through Xsetup, and manually select one of these resolutions, TCL starts desktop properly. Is it possible that something else, such as mouse prevents TCL from booting to desktop?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2009, 09:45:22 AM
What I mean is:
Code: [Select]
$ cat ~/.xsession
Xvesa -br -screen 1024x768x32 -shadow -mouse /dev/input/mice,5 -nolisten tcp -I 2>&1 > /dev/null &
...

If you use the boot code "text" you boot to console mode and then you will be able to edit this to read 1024x768x24 and then "startx"
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 10:48:39 AM
Hi Juanito,

First, I greatly appreciate your patience to help. I trust the process you posted will work, however it sounds like I will need to do it each time I boot..., which is even more time consuming and cumbersome than booting with Xsetup and select the resolution...
However, would you say if I can somehow achieve this with TCL boot parameters, such as vga=, plus something else, so I can re-master to make TCL boot to desktop, instead of console, without all this manual procedure?
This Xvesa problem is unfortunate, as the Thinkpad is perfect for TCL, with just right native resolution too (1024x768), while the new laptops I have (1280x800) display TCL desktop stretched and therefore fuzzy, as Xvesa picks 1024x768 and stretches to match the screen...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Jason W on July 06, 2009, 10:59:29 AM
Setting the right screen resolution and then placing .xsession in your backup should prevent having to do anything upon further boots to set up the display.
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 11:03:57 AM
Jason,

Thank you. I forgot the Xvesa parameters will carry to future sessions through backup...
Would you have some suggestions for fixing resolution for new laptops (1280x800)?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Jason W on July 06, 2009, 11:11:35 AM
I don't have a laptop or newer monitor for that matter, so I would not know what resolutions would be supported.

The command "Xvesa -listmodes" issued on those machines would tell of the resolutions that could safely be used. 

915resolution.tce may also help.
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2009, 11:32:01 AM
On my laptop this works (using the 915resolution extension):
Code: [Select]
$ sudo 915resolution 50 1280 800
You can then edit .xsession to 1280x800x32 and startx
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 11:47:29 AM
Juanito,

Thanks much. Great tip. Will it also be carried over to the future sessions via standard backup, i.e. mydata.gz?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: samedirection on July 06, 2009, 03:28:05 PM
"will it be carried over...?" 

Not without the additional step of adding the correct command to your autoruns.sh script.  See the 915resolution .info file for instructions.

On my vostro 1500 (also 1250x800), I have an intel chipset that is not supported by the stock 915resolution extension.  There is, however,  a patch for it on the Puppy forums.  It might be worth applying since it's also the chipset used by the Acer Aspire One, a decent, inexpensive netbook.  The link for the patch and resulting discussion: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=31298). 

Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 05:45:05 PM
It looks hopeless for me to get the correct resolution. On my main laptop I have nVidia 8400 and on the other it is ATI. 915resolution does not support either one...
Considering these are probably the most common video chips for newer laptops, looks to me Xvesa is no longer maintained? If it is so, then it is regrettable, because it appears to be light in hardware requirements and still quite sufficient, short of 3d...
Is there any chance someone could continue Xvesa maintenance?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 06, 2009, 07:53:12 PM
Juanito,

By the way, you are absolutely right on default resolution (Of course!). When I looked at xsession, it is now indeed 1024x768x32, not 1024x768x24.
I think at some point it must have been updated.
I still do not understand how it is that Xvesa is not working with Thinkpad T23, which is perfectly capable of supporting all these resolutions and if you go through manual xsetup picking the same resolution then it works...Looks to me that understanding of this phenomenon would help lots of people, not just me...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Juanito on July 06, 2009, 10:32:35 PM
As per google, several people have had issues with the S3 graphics in a Thinkpad T23.

If you only want to use one resolution - 1024x768x24 - then modifying .xsession and adding it to your backup would seems to be the way to go.

If you want to use more than one resolution, then maybe using the Xorg extension would be better?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: samedirection on July 07, 2009, 02:02:29 AM
915resolution does not support either one...

915resolution is a hack for intel chips only, because they don't _report_ the correct resolutions.  This is not the problem with the other chipsets, AFAIK. 

By the way are your nVidia 8400 and ATI chipsets powering widescreen monitors or 4:3?  It seems that half the problem with the "simple X window" setup (Xvesa and its helpers) is that Xvesa doesn't have adequate support for wide screen resolutions (in otherwords, it's not the chipset per se, but the fact that you want to run it at 16:9 or 16:10 or whatever).   I know that it supports some widescreen setups (the eee for example), but not others.  Or?

Puppy Linux also uses Xvesa, which is good for us, since they're actively working to solve these problems as well, and it seems they have both some decent smarts among them, and a wide user (and therefore hardware) base.  You might find some joy searching their forums (it's where I found the patch for 915resolution for my chipset).

Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 07, 2009, 06:22:52 AM
Hi Juanito,

Thanks. I am all for simplicity, one resolution is fine, so xsession-in-backup route is OK for me. I meant to say only that I do not understand that xsession already appears to have the right parameters (resolution), which I see via cat ~/.xsession from console. Therefore it appears there is nothing to change in xsession that I can see... However it still does not work unless I go through manual setting resolution (via xsetup) during boot. This is what I fail to understand and how saving xsession in backup will help, unless overtyping xsession parameters with the same content does something mysterious to make it work...
I will need to get to the bottom of this, TCL is too precious gem not to spend time on ironing these things...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Juanito on July 07, 2009, 06:33:39 AM
Is it possible your machine will do 1024x768x24, but not (the default) 1024x768x32?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 07, 2009, 07:04:11 AM
Is it possible your machine will do 1024x768x24, but not (the default) 1024x768x32?

I believe it can do both. However I tried the boot codes of vga=792, 791 and 790, exhausting all these variants, and all of them dumped me to the console prompt rather than desktop..
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 07, 2009, 08:34:22 AM
Xvesa doesn't have adequate support for wide screen resolutions
I hate to dwell on this sore point, but considering all laptops in the recent years are widescreen, what does it take to re-instate Xvesa maintenance project, if it is in fact not maintained anymore? I do not suppose there is no interest in light graphics anymore, and we are all doomed to bloat! Considering light and increasingly better systems that have been popping up: Austrumi, SliTaz, and most recently -  the gem of all gems - TCL, looks to me that appreciation of efficiency and dexterity is not dead yet and it would make people happy if this Xvesa thing is finally updated...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Jason W on July 07, 2009, 09:08:40 AM
There is the Xvesa extension in the repo that is from Xorg 7.1.  It may have more features than the one in base other than the numlock led given that it is twice the size of the one in base.  The Xvesa in base was picked for it's good feature/size ratio.  

I too was not happy to hear that Xvesa was no longer being developed.  But to be honest, even if Xvesa was still maintained the current version would not be in base and may not even be an extension.  The list of dependencies and features kept growing, and was getting bloated by TC standards.  The Xvesa from Xorg 7.1 was the last one to not need any dependencies outside of base.  This is not to complain about Xvesa as it is a valued part of TC.  But older versions of it suit our purposes more than the most recent.  

Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 07, 2009, 10:33:36 AM
There is the Xvesa extension in the repo that is from Xorg 7.1.  It may have more features than the one in base other than the numlock led given that it is twice the size of the one in base.  The Xvesa in base was picked for it's good feature/size ratio.  
Jason,

Thank you for this insight. For the sake of efficiency I would rather put up with bad display than bloat, so I trust the right decisions were made under circumstances. Sounds like the Xvesa extension extension you mentioned is not worth consideration even as TCL extension, option for microcore?
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: Jason W on July 07, 2009, 10:44:41 AM
The Xvesa extension should work fine.  Not only do the later Xvesas have more dependencies, but I read that there is brokenness in them in it's last releases.  I was considering trying for a minimal dependency build of a later Xvesa but from what I have gathered I don't think it would help much over what is already available in the Xvesa extension in the repo.

The Xorg-xvesa-lite.tce is only 1mb compressed, less than twice the size of the Xvesa extension and it perhaps would be a good way when Xvesa does not meet the system's needs. 
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: ^thehatsrule^ on July 07, 2009, 12:23:24 PM
Is it possible your machine will do 1024x768x24, but not (the default) 1024x768x32?

I believe it can do both. However I tried the boot codes of vga=792, 791 and 790, exhausting all these variants, and all of them dumped me to the console prompt rather than desktop..
If trying to use the fb, I think xfbdev is needed (although I'm not sure what the 'dumped' part means)

There is the Xvesa extension in the repo that is from Xorg 7.1.  It may have more features than the one in base other than the numlock led given that it is twice the size of the one in base.  The Xvesa in base was picked for it's good feature/size ratio. 
Jason,

Thank you for this insight. For the sake of efficiency I would rather put up with bad display than bloat, so I trust the right decisions were made under circumstances. Sounds like the Xvesa extension extension you mentioned is not worth consideration even as TCL extension, option for microcore?
If you are using MC, they are already offered as core elements.

Also, widescreen is somewhat supported iirc (I think some version of vbe is needed... 2.0?).  As Jason pointed out, -listmodes should tell you what's available.
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 07, 2009, 01:58:02 PM
Thank you, Thehatsrule,

By 'dumped' I did not mean to imply that the command prompt is less appreciated than desktop but only that leaving me at the command prompt rather than proceeding to the desktop was not my objective at the moment...
On the serious side, it will take me some time to experiment with the options Jason and you suggest. If someone has experience in these, hints would be greatly appreciated...
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: ^thehatsrule^ on July 07, 2009, 08:16:30 PM
Actually, I meant that as wondering why xsetup would be needed if a working .xsession was backed up.
Title: Re: How to - Resolve Xvesa issue
Post by: tclfan on July 08, 2009, 05:41:31 AM
Actually, I meant that as wondering why xsetup would be needed if a working .xsession was backed up.
It should not be needed.  I did not get around to test it yet, however. Only I will have to use xsetup initially, since only this manual process gets me desktop in the first place. No vga= override appears to work for me. But again, .xsession parameters appear to be fine anyway, so I do not understand what this manual process does in addition, that I do not see.
Thanks again.