Tiny Core Linux

Tiny Core Base => TCB Talk => Topic started by: Kivlov on June 11, 2013, 03:12:12 AM

Title: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 11, 2013, 03:12:12 AM
Hello :)

I try TC for few days, with an old thin client which can't connect anymore to our Windows 2008 R2 server via RDP (RDP client version too old and no update from Neoware possible). the thin client is a Neoware CA2 (E100 early), 800Mhz cpu and 128mb ram. I can boot on USB drive, so I installed TC (4.7.7 12mb) on a little 256mb USB stick (with core2usb).

it works great... but it takes several seconds to boot : from the syslinux boot screen, more than 2 minutes are necessary to load the desktop (for example, about 1min25sec to load /boot/core.gz).

is that normal ? when I tried Damn Small Linux, it was really really faster. I searched how to "boost" boot time, but I didn't find anything to help. any idea ?

thank you !
Kivlov :)
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: curaga on June 11, 2013, 04:21:16 AM
If your device boots using USB 1, it will be slow. Install to the internal drive for the best speed.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 11, 2013, 05:07:33 AM
I can't install it on the internal flash chip (or I missed something).

maybe it's USB 1, but why Damn Small Linux load very fast and not Tiny Core (which is lighter) ?
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: curaga on June 11, 2013, 05:26:56 AM
The DSL initrd is ~400kb IIRC. Ours is ~6mb.

The different bootloader might also affect things.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 11, 2013, 05:28:04 AM
Hi Kivlov
According to this:
http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/neoware/CA2/
you have USB1.1 which is slow. How big is your backup file? Run:
Code: [Select]
filetool.sh -dto find out. A large backup file will cause slow boot times.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 11, 2013, 05:39:51 AM
Total backup size : 0.01 MB (7412 bytes) ;D

ok for the initrd, I didn't remember loading 6mb with USB 1 was so long... :-X

do you know if there is any solution to install TC on the flash "DiskOnModule" ?
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: pioj on June 11, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
Do you have other ways to boot the computer? (sdcards, CF, etc..)

You should be able to install a bootloader to your DiskOnModule (I understand it is P.ATA/IDE type) by simply boot from another linux distro ,ie ubuntu, and then install GRUB or SYSLINUX targetting on /sda (or wherever the D.O.M is located)
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: genec on June 11, 2013, 01:52:00 PM
Tried launching the installer from the GUI?  This will need the CorePlus ISO or downloading several extensions.

What does TC see the DoM as?  a hard disk as hda/sda hopefully?  If it emulates just a regular-ish disk, you should be able to install with ease.  I'd recommend leaving the CHS geometry as-is as I've seen issues changing geometry.  If it already has a SYSLINUX-compatible file system, you may even be able to just install to it.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 12, 2013, 01:05:00 AM
that's the problem : in BIOS, nothing appears as IDE master or slave. the hardware exists and the system boot on DoM perfectly, but I don't know why ??? with TC loaded via USB stick, only sda1 appears... and this is the USB stick. I don't see anything else :P
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 12, 2013, 05:12:25 AM
Hi Kivlov
Post the result of:
Code: [Select]
fdisk -l
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 12, 2013, 05:20:52 AM
only 1 line :

Device : /dev/sda1
Boot : *
Start : 1
End : 976
Blocks : 249840
Id : b
System : Win95 FAT32
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 12, 2013, 06:45:59 AM
Hi Kivlov
Use the Apps utility and install   mtd-3.0.21-tinycore.tcz. Then reboot and see if the drive shows up.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 12, 2013, 06:58:42 AM
no other drive with this app :'(
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 12, 2013, 07:12:34 AM
Hi Kivlov
Have you tried  dmesg  to see if it provides any clues?
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 12, 2013, 07:30:37 AM
I didn't try before. here is the pastebin : dmesg (http://pastebin.com/0mcNuWGm). I don't see anything related to the DoM :-\
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: zerophnx on June 12, 2013, 08:30:16 AM
Is this it? I don't know anything about this device, so it might be unrelated.

Code: [Select]
ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x1f0 ctl 0x3f6 bmdma 0xd000 irq 14
ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0xd008 irq 15

I had to fight our thin clients (WYSE S30,S50,9150SE) to get access to their local storage. Hopefully this will be simpler than what I had to go through them working.

Can you test using another distro or installation disc (such as the Gentoo 'installer' or Parted Magic) just see if it shows up? If it does, the dmesg should help.

Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: curaga on June 12, 2013, 10:25:26 AM
Those are empty IDE ports. If you can't find a way to access the flash chip, you could add an IDE drive of your own: a hd, ssd or a CF/SD card with adapter.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 13, 2013, 02:43:12 AM
I tried UBCD, loaded via another USB stick.

it confirms that there isn't any ATA drive (hide, lock... nothing), so I don't know how to access the DoM :'(

is this the IDE port to plug an adaptater ?

(http://i.imgur.com/bsM26D8l.jpg)
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: aus9 on June 13, 2013, 04:18:28 AM
Yes

44 pins looks like a laptop to me, and the adapter will be 40 pins similar to
(44 is RH connector)

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTU_6ND1kxmzSCcw55QKDX7L2hga45i3BD5uetBrl85Yhf3ggVy7Q)

The adapter takes care of the fact that most normal ide cables have one pin filled in, to make it idiot proof
(helps me)  :P

so 44 pins to 40 pins which is really 39 pins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA

good luck
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: genec on June 14, 2013, 04:50:55 AM
44 pins looks like a laptop to me, and the adapter will be 40 pins similar to
(44 is RH connector)
Except I know of exactly 0 drives that have the traditional 40-pin and only need 5VDC.  All 3.5" and 5.25" HDDs that I've seen use 12VDC on the spindle
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 14, 2013, 05:09:55 AM
Hi Kivlov
Quote
it confirms that there isn't any ATA drive (hide, lock... nothing), so I don't know how to access the DoM
is this the IDE port to plug an adaptater ?
Yes, that is the IDE port and the DoM is a small board that plugs right on top of it. Since it's not there, you should have
a DoC (Disk on Chip). Look at this picture:
http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/neoware/CA2/CA2board.shtml
See the empty socket above the battery? Yours should have a chip in there.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 14, 2013, 05:12:32 AM
of course I have this chip (32mb DoM with this Neoware), but I don't know why I can't access to it and why I don't see it anywhere :'(
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 14, 2013, 05:22:54 AM
Hi Kivlov
You likely need a driver to access it. The part number of the chip would be helpful to try to locate a driver.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 14, 2013, 05:46:54 AM
I have another chip next to me (one with Windows CE instead of Neolinux, but it's the same chip and hardware). those are the numbers I can read, maybe it can help :

(stickers on the chip)
DOC : 32MB   BH01CB703437736EM
YYE932

(behind the stickers)
MD2202-D32
43303403773
Ver. 4.2
DiskOnChip 2000

edit : I found a pic, mine is the same.

(http://www.memorypartner.com/images/v/201301/13589363380.jpg)
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 14, 2013, 10:14:29 PM
Hi Kivlov
The web is littered with threads and write ups about booting from DoC. One problem is the vast majority of these are 10 to
15 years old and refer to kernel versions 2.0, 2.2, or 2.4. The other problem is they all require either patching a kernel
and/or patching grub or using lilo or loadlin. Judge for yourself, here are a couple of links to show what you are in for:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Disk-on-Chip-HOWTO/install.html
http://lakeshoremicro.com/diskonchip-grub-howto.html
I think you would be better off getting yourself a DoM like this:
http://www.kazame.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tc-dom-closeup.jpg
It should show up as a standard IDE drive.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Kivlov on June 15, 2013, 12:57:11 AM
thank you for those links and explanations ! I think that the IDE adaptator is the best solution (or the easiest... ;D).
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: Rich on June 15, 2013, 07:37:34 AM
Hi Kivlov
If DoMs are hard to come by or overly expensive in your locale, a 44 pin CF adapter connected with a 44 pin ribbon
cable should also work.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: genec on June 15, 2013, 08:57:19 AM
CF on a 44-pin laptop IDE sounds like an awesome idea, especially if you want lower noise and probably more shock resistance.
Title: Re: Is my TC boot time correct ?
Post by: gerald_clark on June 15, 2013, 04:15:49 PM
They also make IDE SD card adapters.