Tiny Core Linux
Tiny Core Extensions => TCE Q&A Forum => Topic started by: gmc on May 14, 2013, 07:02:35 PM
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Greetings,
I am legally blind and find the default Windows Manager somewhat difficult to use and/or configure. I am trying to decide which WM to use. I need something that is relatively easy to configure for large fonts in menus, title bars, applications etc. It would be helpful if it supported some of the more common MS Windows keyboard shortcuts (like Alt-F4 to close, Ctrl-C and Ctrl-v for copy and paste, etc.). At some point I would like to install a screen magnifier as well.
I have searched for comparisons between the different WM's available for TC but have found little help. If someone could point me to a direct comparison of the available (to TC) WM's, or just discuss the various pros and cons of what is currently available it would be most helpful.
Any other hints, tips, suggestions for setting up a large-font desktop would also be most appreciated.
Thanks
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Hi gmc
This might be worth considering:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-HOWTO/visual.html
Specifically the section labeled 3.1.4. Adjusting the Screen's Resolution
I think you need to be running Xorg for this to work. I just tried it, and what it does is it magnifies the desktop so it's
larger than the screen, and allows you to pan by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
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IME, the xrandr binary from Xorg allows to change the resolution of Xorg, but also of the newer Xvesa extension (but not with the old Xvesa extension).
Also, you could find some hints here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,7254.msg
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and I presume you have heard of ADRIANE as used used by Knoppix live cds or dvds
One would use the bootcode "adriane" without the quotes to get access to your sound chip
It appears having touch typing skills will greatly assist you.
the youtube is old and in German but gives a good idea of pressing the down arrow key to select menu items after boot up
good luck
oops a link might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU96ukn13ss
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enlightenment is highly configurable
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yep, enlighment have a general scaling option, but gtk and qt must be configured, fltk unfortunately can not be configured, so you learn to use the utility system from the terminal
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Hi gmc
This might be worth considering:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-HOWTO/visual.html
Specifically the section labeled 3.1.4. Adjusting the Screen's Resolution
I think you need to be running Xorg for this to work. I just tried it, and what it does is it magnifies the desktop so it's
larger than the screen, and allows you to pan by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
This is most helpful! I especially appreciate you taking the time to point out seciont 3.14. I will give that a try shortly and see how it goes.
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IME, the xrandr binary from Xorg allows to change the resolution of Xorg, but also of the newer Xvesa extension (but not with the old Xvesa extension).
What's this about newer and older Xvesa extension? Do I need to install a newver Xvesa from the Apps browser or what?
And what does 'IME' stand for?
[/quote]
Also, you could find some hints here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,7254.msg
Ah, this is also a very helpful link - Thanks You!
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and I presume you have heard of ADRIANE as used used by Knoppix live cds or dvds
One would use the bootcode "adriane" without the quotes to get access to your sound chip
It appears having touch typing skills will greatly assist you.
Fortunaetly I do have good touch typing skills, in fact I prefer the keyboard to the mouse for almost all regular activities. I have downloaded and played with Knoppix/ADRIANE but did not persue it much. It is not quite what I am looking for because my vision is not so far gone that I need the speach part, only screen magnification. But I very much appreciate your taking the time to point it out and I expect that it will be of use to others that read this topic.
Have a great day and thanks again...
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Xvesa-7.1.tcz
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acronyms:_I#IM
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enlightenment is highly configurable
Thanks - I'll take a look at it! I appreciate the tip.
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yep, enlighment have a general scaling option, but gtk and qt must be configured, fltk unfortunately can not be configured, so you learn to use the utility system from the terminal
Hi - Can you explain a bit more? I'm still new enough that all these abreviations don't mean much yet (gtk, qt, fltk...).
Thanks.
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gtk, qt, fltk, these are all graphics libraries that programs use to draw the gui (graphical user interface).
The interface of a program inherits the characteristics of the library used.
Some libraries are more configurable than others, gtk and qt allow you to set the font, program like firefox (gtk) or vlc (qt) use this libraries.
The specific tinycore utility (such as apps or control panel) use fltk, this library instead does not allow you to resize the font.
The visually impaired thank the creators of this library for this choice.
/home/tc/.gtkrc-2.0 is the configuration file of gtk
/home/tc/.config/Trolltech.conf is the configuration file of qt
If I'm not mistaken enlightenment uses its libraries called efl, I do not know if it has a configuration file, but enlightenment window manager is highly configurable from this point of view
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gtk, qt, fltk, these are all graphics libraries that programs use to draw the gui (graphical user interface).
The interface of a program inherits the characteristics of the library used.
Some libraries are more configurable than others, gtk and qt allow you to set the font, program like firefox (gtk) or vlc (qt) use this libraries.
IME, font size in apps making use of gtk2, qt, Xaw and plain X11 could be globally changed by passing a parameter '-dpi N' to the X server.
Also, 'xrandr --dpi N' would change font sizes of all such apps started thereafter.
The specific tinycore utility (such as apps or control panel) use fltk, this library instead does not allow you to resize the font.
The visually impaired thank the creators of this library for this choice.
I suspect fltk fonts (like may other fltk options) could be changed at compiletime, just not at runtime.
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gtk, qt, fltk, these are all graphics libraries that programs use to draw the gui (graphical user interface).
The interface of a program inherits the characteristics of the library used.
Some libraries are more configurable than others, gtk and qt allow you to set the font, program like firefox (gtk) or vlc (qt) use this libraries.
The specific tinycore utility (such as apps or control panel) use fltk, this library instead does not allow you to resize the font.
The visually impaired thank the creators of this library for this choice.
/home/tc/.gtkrc-2.0 is the configuration file of gtk
/home/tc/.config/Trolltech.conf is the configuration file of qt
If I'm not mistaken enlightenment uses its libraries called efl, I do not know if it has a configuration file, but enlightenment window manager is highly configurable from this point of view
Awesome! Your explanations are clear, concise, and exactly what I needed. You have saved me many, many hours of searching/reading/filtering, etc. Thank you!
"The visually impaired thank the creators of this library for this choice."
How very true!
I just tried enlightenment last night. It is highly configurable but I don't think it will work for me on these thin clients. I only have 100MB of available storage on the internal DOM (Disk On Module).after installing TCL. Enlightenment took most of that and left too little for the other apps I need. Just to add salt to the would, so to speak, it also would not work with my keyboard for some reason. Most characters would not show up in aterm so I could not do any real work at the CLI.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain things so clearly.
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gtk, qt, fltk, these are all graphics libraries that programs use to draw the gui (graphical user interface).
The interface of a program inherits the characteristics of the library used.
Some libraries are more configurable than others, gtk and qt allow you to set the font, program like firefox (gtk) or vlc (qt) use this libraries.
IME, font size in apps making use of gtk2, qt, Xaw and plain X11 could be globally changed by passing a parameter '-dpi N' to the X server.
Also, 'xrandr --dpi N' would change font sizes of all such apps started thereafter.
The specific tinycore utility (such as apps or control panel) use fltk, this library instead does not allow you to resize the font.
The visually impaired thank the creators of this library for this choice.
I suspect fltk fonts (like may other fltk options) could be changed at compiletime, just not at runtime.
Thanks again for such timely and useful information. It will prove most helpful.
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I am wondering who decides which window managers are included in core plus? Maybe they could talk about the benefits (and drawbacks?) of each one. I can't find anything in the forums on the merits of the different WM's included.
And are there other WM's in the repositories that I should be aware of?
Thanks.
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If your hardware is limiting your choices, but is capable of Xvesa, then why not use choose a lower resolution, e.g. 800x600?
Most of the fltk apps where made with the ability to support 800x600. Use control panel Xvesa to see which resolutions Xvesa could detect on your specific hardware target.
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Also, 'xrandr --dpi N' would change font sizes of all such apps started thereafter.
does not seem to change the font size, I have to restart X?
I suspect fltk fonts (like may other fltk options) could be changed at compiletime, just not at runtime.
it seems to me that we had already spoken, however I consider a poor choice of having to recompile a program to enlarge the font.
Anyway, I do not know how, but programs in fltk like nut have the interface that fits (and I seem to remember also the font)
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Also, 'xrandr --dpi N' would change font sizes of all such apps started thereafter.
does not seem to change the font size, I have to restart X?
No, the app.
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If your hardware is limiting your choices,...
It is, but I believe that Xorg will fit within those constraints. ...but is capable of Xvesa, then why not use choose a lower resolution, e.g. 800x600?
Most of the fltk apps where made with the ability to support 800x600. Use control panel Xvesa to see which resolutions Xvesa could detect on your specific hardware target.
Thank you kind sir for your suggestions. I am currently using 800x600 Xvesa but even that is too small for my blind eyes. I would use 640x480 if the fltk apps would be nice, but as you already mentioned they like 800x600 or more. Even 640x480 is still difficult for me to see.
I currently modify X settings to get larger fonts in aterm and some other apps. Beaver supports large fonts for working with text files, so that helps. But if I can get Xorg to work it will give me more options like better font control, scaling on the fly and a scrollable oversize desktop, etc.
My fundamental motivation for using Tiny Core is to save money and have greater reliability. I presently have desktop and laptop machines capable of running larger linux distros but they don't meet the primary goal of saving money.
For example, I have one laptop that runs full time with WinAmp feeding music to an FM transmitter, giving us music anywhere in the house, garage, shop and yard without the need for wires or special equipment.
WinAmp is remote controlled with X10 RF remotes placed at strategic locations. If a song comes on that we don't want to listen to we can use a remote to skip it. Songs we don't like can be deleted on the fly with the remotes. This system works well and is reasonably reliable.
The problem? Cost. Even laptops use a fair amount of power. If I can get an equivalent setup on TC using the thin client I will save many dollars on our electric bill.
I also have an old Win98 box running AirSnare for intrusion detection with verbal and visual alerts and logging/tracking through Ethereal. I'd love to set up another thin client box to do that with TC. I have another box monitoring network traffic stats and packet flow.
And of course you are probably aware that I have one of the thin clients set up as a TCL PXE server (still a work in progrss, but working). That is so great, I would go through all this learning curve just for that alone!
And last but certainly not least, I intend to have one of these thin clients set up as my primary browser/email/office station using TCL. I am already using TC on one thin client for at least 90% of my daily work (even though I have Windows 7 running on an i970 processor based Asus board with 12GB of RAM and multiple terabytes of RAID storage (and ZoomText for the low vision)), because the thin client uses so little power that I can just leave it on all the time, it is fast and it is easy to use (did I mention that it is free as well?).
Well, I apologize for taking so much of your time with this missive, but I wanted you to understand waht is motivating me and how it will impact our lives. What you are doing here is making a real differnce for me and for others.
Thank you.
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altho it may not help with menus, you may like to test opening terminals with a selected size font?
aterm -fn 12x24
some font names (fn) can be seen in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
I prefer lxterminal which has the abiltiy to use a pull down to select font size
Edit -> Preferences -> Terminal font max size appears to be 72
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altho it may not help with menus, you may like to test opening terminals with a selected size font?
aterm -fn 12x24
some font names (fn) can be seen in /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
I prefer lxterminal which has the abiltiy to use a pull down to select font size
Edit -> Preferences -> Terminal font max size appears to be 72
These tips are great! I just installed lxterminal and it is perfect! Things are just getting better and better with TC, thanks to all the help from you all.
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I posted the xmag screen magnifier, perhaps it will be useful.
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Hi curaga
Xmag is not listed here:
http://tinycorelinux.net/4.x/x86/tcz/
and does not show up in AppBrowser.
Is the list file supposed to have a leading ./ ?
tc@box:~/tcprovides$ cat db/4x/list/xmag.tcz.list
./usr/local/bin/xmag
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Perhaps you can tell that it's not quite yesterday I last dealt with extensions ;)
The listings should be up to date now. The .list files can have ./, it doesn't matter either way.
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Perhaps you can tell that it's not quite yesterday I last dealt with extensions ;)
The listings should be up to date now. The .list files can have ./, it doesn't matter either way.
You made me smile about "not quite yesterday". Thanks for taking the time to put that up, and to fix it up. And thanks to Rich for pointing out that there was a problem. You guys are great.
Well, I'm off to read about xmag and how to use it...
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Hi gmc
This might be worth considering:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Accessibility-HOWTO/visual.html
Specifically the section labeled 3.1.4. Adjusting the Screen's Resolution
I think you need to be running Xorg for this to work. I just tried it, and what it does is it magnifies the desktop so it's
larger than the screen, and allows you to pan by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
After much trial and error I have finally gotten it working!!! Thanks so much for the link - it is just about a perfect solution. I'm still experimenting with the settings to maximize usefulness but so far it is working great.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.
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Hi gmc
You are quite welcome.
... it is just about a perfect solution.
Even if it's not perfect, I feel it makes more sense to adjust the screens resolution to something as usable as possible
before messing around with font sizes. Once you have done that, you can still tweak your fonts. There is some interaction
between screen magnification and font size. For example, if the resolution you choose magnifies the screen by a factor
of two, your 8 point font will look like a 16 point font, and for every point you increase the selected font size by, the
displayed font will appear two points larger. So by adjusting the magnification first, you won't need to increase the font
sizes as much and should have a greater number of fonts to choose from. As you go to larger and larger fonts, there are
fewer fonts available.
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Hi gmc
You are quite welcome.
... it is just about a perfect solution.
Even if it's not perfect, I feel it makes more sense to adjust the screens resolution to something as usable as possible
before messing around with font sizes. Once you have done that, you can still tweak your fonts. There is some interaction
between screen magnification and font size. For example, if the resolution you choose magnifies the screen by a factor
of two, your 8 point font will look like a 16 point font, and for every point you increase the selected font size by, the
displayed font will appear two points larger. So by adjusting the magnification first, you won't need to increase the font
sizes as much and should have a greater number of fonts to choose from. As you go to larger and larger fonts, their are
fewer fonts available.
Thanks for taking the time to explain that, you are a very good teacher. Another good point (sorry, the pun just crept in all by itself) for increasing screen magnification before increasing font size is that changing fonts does not affect all programs equally - but screen magnification does.
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ehy gmc, read this topic:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,15552.0.html
;D
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ehy gmc, read this topic:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,15552.0.html
;D
Hey vinnie - I followed the link - it took me to something about: "TTS for underlined text". I could not find anything related to this thread. Did I get the wrong link or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Glen
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well, if a text is too small and you can select, with that script the computer can read it in your place, for example a description of package in Apps tool
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well, if a text is too small and you can select, with that script the computer can read it in your place, for example a description of package in Apps tool
Got it! Thanks, I was too immersed in the details to get the larger picture. It all looked like it was about keymaps and things. I'll have to take another look. Does it work with other WM's?
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yes, if you can configure actkbd as many others do in this forum (me excluded :P)
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yes, if you can configure actkbd as many others do in this forum (me excluded :P)
Cool, thanks!
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website accessibility:
thought-provoking:
https://opensource.com/article/22/6/equalify-open-internet-accessibility
web access in mind:
https://webaim.org/projects/million/
majestic million:
https://majestic.com/reports/majestic-million
(current and historical data at bottom of webpage is noteworthy in-and-of itself)
wanted to cross-post this since it is related to accessibility