Tiny Core Linux
General TC => Tiny Core Netbooks => Topic started by: Mike7 on February 27, 2013, 05:21:12 PM
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Hi, and cheers to everyone in the Tiny Core Netbooks forum group!
I'm new to this forum, new to Tiny Core Linux, and relatively new to Linux, although I did work for five years in the 1990s at a Unix mainframe terminal with emacs (no x-windows), so I'm not a total newbie to Unix-like operating systems.
I have an Asus EeePC 1000HA with the original WindowsXP SP3 on the hdd. It's been my only computer for five years. I've never owned anything besides laptops or netbooks because I travel a lot. My first was a Z88, designed by Clive Sinclair back in 1987 before the days of the laptop PC.
After five years of hard use, the hdd on my 1000HA is wearing down. I always backup important files, but the fact is that I love this little netbook and don't want anything else. So I thought I'd extend its life by putting a small, run-in-RAM Linux op sys on a pendrive and use that instead of the hdd.
I've researched a lot of Linux distros and the one that has perhaps most impressed me is Tiny Core Linux. I like the images in the .png files at the download sites, I like its modular nature, and I like the documentation. It looks to me like a serious distro, and I want to give it a try.
I've read the pertinent pages in your wiki and in this forum, but I still have some unanswered questions before I try to install TCL on a pendrive. I hope the kind folks here will help me with answers.
Here are my questions:
-- Will Tiny Core Linux (and/or Core Plus, Multicore) work on an Asus EeePC 1000HA if run from a pendrive? Will the keyboard functions, power management, and other features of the EeePC 1000HA be preserved?
-- Can core2usb.exe be used to install the recent versions of TCL (TinyCore-4.7.4, CorePlus-4.7.4, multicore_3.8.4) on a pendrive? If not, what is the most recent version that core2usb.exe supports?
-- Does TCL have persistence when installed on a pendrive (for example a savefs file or a casper_rw file)? If so,which versions have it?
-- Is there a fairly painless way to add wireless support to Tiny Core (rather than Core Plus or Multicore) once it is installed?
-- Does Tiny Core have some sort of minimal browser? Can a better browser be added to it once it has wireless support, if such is possible?
That's all I have for now. I'm looking forward anxiously to your response.
Thanks!
Mike7
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Hi Mike7
If your EeePC 1000 is capable of booting from a thumb drive, it should work. There are posts from members who
have run Tinycore on EeePCs including any special steps they may have taken. The search page should help you
to locate them.
Can core2usb.exe be used to install the recent versions of TCL (TinyCore-4.7.4, CorePlus-4.7.4, multicore_3.8.4) on a pendrive?
Yes, though Multicore is obsolete.
Does TCL have persistence when installed on a pendrive (for example a savefs file or a casper_rw file)? If so,which versions have it?
Tinycores persistence is achieved either through a persistent /home or a mydata.tcz file (compressed tar archive).
Read the concepts page on the website and check the Wiki.
Is there a fairly painless way to add wireless support to Tiny Core (rather than Core Plus or Multicore) once it is installed?
Coreplus is the preferred method. Don't let the size of the ISO fool you, it's only due to all the extra drivers.
Does Tiny Core have some sort of minimal browser? Can a better browser be added to it once it has wireless support, if such is possible?
Tinycore has many different browsers available.
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The hard drive on it seems to be very easily replaceable: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4655
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Hi, Rich. Thanks for your replies to my questions. I've been busy with a leaky roof all week and haven't had time to respond until now.
If your EeePC 1000 is capable of booting from a thumb drive, it should work.
It is. I have Kaspersky Rescue Disk on a pendrive and it boots fine.
There are posts from members who have run Tinycore on EeePCs including any special steps they may have taken. The search page should help you to locate them.
As I said, I looked through them before posting. Nothing very useful there, especially since the various EeePC models are quite different one from another.
Yes, though Multicore is obsolete.
Great! I'll give core2usb.exe a try as soon as I have the chance. I've had total unsuccess making bootable pendrives from Linux distro iso's, and I've tried all the usual installer programs.
Thanks for the tip-off re Multicore.
Tinycores persistence is achieved either through a persistent /home or a mydata.tcz file (compressed tar archive). Read the concepts page on the website and check the Wiki.
I'll do as you suggest.
Coreplus is the preferred method. Don't let the size of the ISO fool you, it's only due to all the extra drivers.
I suppose that the unused drivers in Coreplus can be removed and space reduced?
Please excuse me for insisting, but can wireless support be added to Tiny Core?
What interested me about Tiny Core in contrast to Coreplus was, in particular, the x-windows interface and the simple, straight-forward way everything seems to be arranged in the windows. I'm tired of fancy GUIs. But perhaps the Tiny Core interface is an option in Coreplus?
Tinycore has many different browsers available.
Good to know!
Thanks again for your help.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi, Curaga.
The hard drive on it seems to be very easily replaceable: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4655
That was back in 2008 <grin>. And even then, when they were still easily obtained, they cost almost as much as the computer. Now, I'd be surprised if I could find one.
Cheers!
Mike
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The CorePlus iso is an isohybrid. That means that simply using the dd command to write the iso image to a pendrive often results in a bootable device.
I used to own an eeePC back in 08. Recently I rescued an eeePC900 from being tossed away. Its SSD had been removed and even the SSD card slot was damaged. Therefore not good for anything?
Nope. Turns out that model can boot from full size SD Card. So, easy to dd the coreplus image to a pendrive. Boot eeePC CorePlus from pendrive. Insert SD Card into eeePC. Select TC-Install and install to SD Card including wireless.
Granted, as you previously stated, not all eeePC are the same. But perhaps, your eeePC will be as easy as the one I rescued. It boots and uses the class 10 SD Card just fine.
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I suppose that the unused drivers in Coreplus can be removed and space reduced?
Yes.
Please excuse me for insisting, but can wireless support be added to Tiny Core?
Yes, but may be easier to start with CorePlus.
What interested me about Tiny Core in contrast to Coreplus was, in particular, the x-windows interface and the simple, straight-forward way everything seems to be arranged in the windows. I'm tired of fancy GUIs. But perhaps the Tiny Core interface is an option in Coreplus?
Yes.
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Hi Mike7
If your machine has a wired connection, Tinycore is fine. If it only has a wireless connection, make a bootable
Coreplus thumb drive. It contains everything you need to create a bootable Tinycore thumb drive with wireless
support.
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and replacement re-manufactured HDD's are available dirt cheap for this model on ebay
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Hi, Roberts. Thanks for your post.
I’m glad to hear that CorePlus at least is a hybrid iso. I won’t have to deal with that persnickety isohybrid command <grin>.
I’ve been fooling around with dd all week. I even found a Windows version of it (dd.exe). Unfortunately, it didn’t work for me. (I’m trying to put some anti-malware iso’s like Bitdefender on a pendrive.). There’s something about the way the bytes are written to the destination, or else the disruption dd causes to the FAT filesystem, or maybe MBR problems, that Windows doesn’t like.
By the way, do you happen to know if \\.\x: is the proper device designation for the output file (of=) of dd in Windows?
Congrats on your success with that eeePC900! My 1000HA has an SD socket, and I’ve been thinking of eventually putting Linux in there permanently so I don’t even have to worry about a pendrive. A really cool solution.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi, tinypoodle.
You made my day.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi, Rich.
No, no wired connection here. I function strictly on wi-fi.
I like your solution. Sounds good. That'll be my plan.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi, coreplayer2.
Interesting. The thing is, I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina (although I'm a New Yorker originally), and customs here is a nightmare. There's no way to get anything like an hdd shipped here. And they cost a fortune in stores, if you can find them.
Anyway, I like pendrives. I think they're cool <grin>.
Mike
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Hi Mike7
You want to be extremely careful with the dd command. If you get the of= parameter wrong, you can overwrite
data you did not intend to.
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http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
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What interested me about Tiny Core in contrast to Coreplus was, in particular, the x-windows interface and the simple, straight-forward way everything seems to be arranged in the windows. I'm tired of fancy GUIs. But perhaps the Tiny Core interface is an option in Coreplus?
Think this way:
MicroCore is only the base system and base tools without graphics.
TinyCore is MicroCore + graphical tools and (of course) graphical interface (Xvesa in this case).
CorePlus is TinyCore + extra drivers and tools to setup your environment easily.
All the "extra" components that builds TinyCore and CorePlus are just extensions added to the MicroCore packed in new iso images just to show how Core is extensible (and to help a lot of people!).
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Hi, Rich.
You want to be extremely careful with the dd command. If you get the of= parameter wrong, you can overwrite data you did not intend to.
Yes, it is worrying. I've been using of=\\.\e: Is that correct?
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Hi Mike7
Yes, it is worrying. I've been using of=\\.\e: Is that correct?
I honestly don't know. The link that tinypoodle provided in Reply #14 looks to be pretty informative.
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Hi, Tinypoodle.
Thank you very much for the chrysocome.net link. I can't recall where I downloaded my copy of dd.exe from, but it appears to be the same one since it was also dd-0.5.zip.
I am studying the info chrysocome.net gives on how to use dd. Apparently I made some mistakes. For example, I noticed that dd has once or twice filled up my entire 4Gb pendrive from an input iso of 100Mb. Maybe the --size operator can solve this (although it's unclear whether they are talking about the file being read from or the file or device being read to).
The filter addition for safety is a great idea. But are their dd programs being run as full executables? The one I downloaded will only run in the command line/terminal (I put it into C:\Windows\system32 so it can be run at any level). As a Windows terminal command, how can you add a <filter>? Or will <dd-removable> actually work in the commandline?
Another very thorny question is the naming of if= and of=. I've been using the name of the iso as the input file, and \\.\e: as the name of the output file. I wonder if this is correct? In the chrysocome.net documentation, there are two different Windows designations, although it seems to suggest that for XP (my op sys) the \\.\x: designation will work. Do you think that's right? I wouldn't like to risk using the \\?\Device\Harddisk1\xxxxxx designation for a usb drive. Too scary.
Here's what I've been putting on the terminal commandline:
>dd if=xxxxx.iso of=\\.\e:
It either never stops running, or else after a whiles it returns:
xxxxxxx bytes in
xxxxxxx bytes out
In that case, it seems to be working. The problem is that it's writing to the whole pendrive! (What it may be writing beyond the 100Mb I have no idea.)
I'm also rather worried that I may have made my pendrives inoperable now by using the dd command incorrectly in some way. Is that possible? Won't re-formatting them restore them? This is my most serious worry of all. It could explain why I can't get anything to boot on them, regardless of the installation method used. Very worrisome indeed.
I really would like to figure out how to use this command properly because I think it could be the solution to my problem. It certainly seems like the easiest way to make a bootable usb stick from a hybrid iso.
I hope you and others in the forum will help me out with this.
Cheers!
Mike
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Thanks, Zendrael. That cleared it up.
Cheers!
Mike
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Please consider using a live linux system (live cd for example) to create your usb sticks. dd under windows is much more difficult to understand and handle properly.
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Curaga-
What actually is a ive linux system". I thought that all these linux distro iso files were "live", in the sense that they can be run without a full installation on a hard disk? Am I wrong?
I have no external CD for my netbook and no way to get on right now. I'm a New Yorker currently in Argentina, where all computer things are hugely expensive.
And it's kinda fun figuring out how to use all these tools, and learning what formatting and blocks and partitions and MBRs are all about.
Cheers!
Mike
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On the subject of dd
One thing I forgot to say about dd.exe is that apparently doesn't have the --partok operator available in the linux version of dd. This could be troublesome if writing to a partition on a usb stick. Who wants to use an entire 4Gb stick for a 130Mb iso?
But maybe they've eliminated --partok and made it the default if you don't specify anything else. Also, specifying the number and size of blocks to copy may resolve the lack of --partok.
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http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,12235.0.html
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This could be troublesome if writing to a partition on a usb stick. Who wants to use an entire 4Gb stick for a 130Mb iso?
You could partition first and then have dd access per partition.
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Mike7,
I understood that you are playing around with dd but, how about to give a try to UnetBootin using the DiskImage option? Here is where you can find it: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
I hope it helps you!
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no idea if it works as linux only here
http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/help/guide
it appears to use virtual machine. But at least the OP can try it out?
hmm it does not mention latest TC, http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/supported-linuxes hover on T for TinyCore versions
but AFAIK latest does use syslinux/isolinux bootloader so should work
Any Linux using syslinux
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[quote ]http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,12235.0.html[/quote]
Thanks for the link. I am planning to try core2usb if all else fails.
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Zendrael-
I understood that you are playing around with dd but, how about to give a try to UnetBootin using the DiskImage option? Here is where you can find it: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
I have had no luck with Unetbootin or any other installer. I tried four different installers on a variety of linux distros and bootable rescue disks, and none of the usb sticks would boot.
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Hi, Aus9.
http://www.linuxliveusb.com/en/help/guide
Tried LinuxLive. Didn't work. At least not on the linux-based Rescue Disks I tried to put on bootable pendrives.
There must be a problem with:
a) My computer's BIOs (needs special script?), or
b) The pendrives I'm using (maybe dd messed them up).
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Hi Mike7
I would strongly recommend you use the installer bmarkus created:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/core2usb/files/core2usb-stable/
It was written with exactly your situation in mind, a machine currently running Windows with no CD drive.
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Hi, Rich.
You wrote:
I would strongly recommend you use the installer bmarkus created:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/core2usb/files/core2usb-stable/
It was written with exactly your situation in mind, a machine currently running Windows with no CD drive.
I downloaded it and am planning to try it as a last resort. However, as I don' t know how it works and have had so much trouble with all other methods, even if it does install TCL on my pendrive I will have learned nothing from it, and I still won't be able to install anything else, like another distro or a bootable antimalware program.
This is an important learning experience for me, and as you know we learn more from our mistakes and from failure than from easy successes that we don't understand. Just messing with dd.exe has taught me a lot. So has searching for the reasons why syslinux and grub4dos aren't working. I didn't even know what a partition or an MBR was a month ago.
So, yes, I probably will end up giving core2usb a try. But I'm not too excited about a magic solution, if you get my meaning. I won't get any satisfaction from it, because I won't have solved the question of why I can't install in the usual ways.
Plus, suppose core2usb doesn't work. Imagine how I'll feel then.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi Mike7
But I'm not too excited about a magic solution, if you get my meaning. I won't get any satisfaction from it, because I won't have solved the question of why I can't install in the usual ways.
Tinycore is not your usual Linux and does not install in the usual way. Core2usb is not a magic solution. From the
core2usb summary page at SourceForge:
WIndows program to install Tiny Core Linux on USB stick.
You'll note it is not listed as a Linux installer, but is specific to Tinycore because Tinycore is different. The same
is true of the tcinstall program except it is Linux based. Once you have Tinycore installed to USB there will be
no shortage of things you can learn.
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Addressing partitions from windows with dd is neither a usual way.
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Hi, Rich.
Tinycore is not your usual Linux and does not install in the usual way. Core2usb is not a magic solution. . . You'll note it is not listed as a Linux installer, but is specific to Tinycore because Tinycore is different. The same is true of the tcinstall program except it is Linux based. Once you have Tinycore installed to USB there will be no shortage of things you can learn.
Okay, now I just have to get up the courage to face another possible failure. You see, I've tried over a hundred installations over the past month (no exaggeration), and the only ones that worked were the first two I tried: Kaspersky Rescue Disk and Puppeee 4.4. After those, zilch. Hundreds of hours down the tube, and I'm a nervous wreck and can't sleep. Literally.
I've become convinced that I messed up my computer or the BIOS or my pendrives somehow and that I will never be able to boot anything else on this machine. If core2usb doesn't work, that will be the proof. So you can understand my anxiety about it.
Mike
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Hi, tinypoodle.
Addressing partitions from windows with dd is neither a usual way.
Someone in another forum talked me into trying it. However, they either weren't aware of the difficulties and dangers involved or just neglected to inform me. In either case, it hasn't worked and may have done dammage.
I have no one to blame but myself.
Cheers!
Mike
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Hi, All.
Just a quick note to say that I have not left this thread nor given up on a pendrive installation. I just have to fix my leaky roof and my hot water heater (which blew up a week ago), as well as buy another pendrive.
I'll be back here as soon as my house problems are fixed (if I'm not flooded out first <grin>).
Cheers!
Mike
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Hmmm...
If you run Tiny Core on the new water heater, it will probably run faster, be less prone to malfunctions and have more room for the actual water. You might want to look into the new water-resistant pendrives. (1)
I'm sure there's a Tiny Core metaphor for the leaky roof, too. :D
Good luck with the home repairs. If you have kids, you might want to look into a "high recovery" water heater. (2)
(1) I made that up about the water resistant pendrive.
(2) That one's for real.
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Hi, Lee.
Too bad about the water-resistant pendrives, they'd have sure been nice in this climate <grin>.
I might just try running the water heater with TCL. Plenty of room in one for a 4Gb RAM chip. I'm thinking a servo-controlled valve on the water intake.
No, no kids (that I know about) <big grin>.
M.
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Actually, the first pendrive I ever owned ( DaneElec 256 MB ) fell out of my pocket in my gravel parking area, in snow, experienced the great outdoors for over a month and got a small car and possibly a mini van parked on it several times and still worked. I did have to do reconstructive surgery on the metal USB plug to be able to plug it in. It died just a few weeks later, but by then I had all my data safely backed up to newer, bigger stick.
Regarding Too bad about the water-resistant pendrives, they'd have sure been nice in this climate <grin>.
Which climate would that be? To coin a phrase, "On the internet, no one knows you're Pittsburgher." :)
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I might just try running the water heater with TCL. Plenty of room in one for a 4Gb RAM chip. I'm thinking a servo-controlled valve on the water intake.
http://hackaday.com/2011/02/23/self-regulating-water-heater/