Tiny Core Linux

General TC => Programming & Scripting - Unofficial => Topic started by: konaexpress on March 12, 2012, 04:28:35 PM

Title: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 12, 2012, 04:28:35 PM
H, new guy here.

What programming language is the control panel in TC programmed with? I don't really know anything about programming but there has to be a way to make that thing look better. :o And no offense to who ever made it. I would like to help in some way if I could, even if it means I have to learn something new.

Thanks for the 411! -John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: hiro on March 12, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
It's fltk 1
Tinycore might not look like the product of an arts student, but it works nonetheless :P
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 12, 2012, 11:04:52 PM
It's fltk 1
Tinycore might not look like the product of an arts student, but it works nonetheless :P

O'no, please do not take that the wromg way. :-[ Tiny core is great, I just found it! I have tried allot of "small" distros and you guys had me at the desk top. Tiny core is a keeper in my book and I want to see what you guys do with it.

So then, fltk is the preferred way to program for TC, OK............. Didn't plan on learning C++......................

-John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: curaga on March 13, 2012, 06:55:53 AM
If you're merely doing GUI changes, the fluid editor can work without writing C++.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 13, 2012, 07:53:40 AM
Um....now I am afraid to say anything. :-X You guys have worked hard on this distro.

I was just wondering about changing the looks of it?..................
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: curaga on March 13, 2012, 08:03:02 AM
1. Download the source from 4.x/release/src/fltk_projects/cpanel on any mirror
2. Install compiletc and fluid so you can test
3. Open cpanel.fl in fluid

In the fluid editor you can tweak the looks.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: Rich on March 13, 2012, 08:11:07 AM
Hi konaexpress
If you wish to modify the appearance of the functions called by cpanels buttons, you'll need to download
their sources as well.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 14, 2012, 10:01:07 AM
Sorry, late to the party again..............

I will get the time and take a look at them. The problem is.....

1. I kinda know what I want to do/ looking for in the design but don't really know anything about C++ other than L. Torvalds hates it.(Joke about C++)

2. My concern is that it might stray from what you guys are doing with TC in that it is a small micro distro and a more robust CPanel would not fit with your plans. Pretty graphics and more options adds bulk and size but maybe a compromise can be found.

I really love what you guys are doing with TC but it is on the verge of not being very usable by dipsh!t Mac users like me. This makes me think that other users have found it and have decided to call it home. Other users like me who are just now finding out after 12 years that OS X has a terminal are going to have problems with the most basic of things like mounting the CD Rom or getting the wifi up when roaming around on a netbook.

It's the most basic things from the point of view of a new user that is difficult to do but I think is a given by Linux users. Out of the small distros out there and I know I do not have to name them, Tiny Core Linux is the cleanest and sharpest I have found. Most small distros are a bit of a train reck to look at and use.

Hopefully I can find a way to help you guys out/ find something I can do for the community and call this home too. Even if it is to eventually make things that don't go out on the main distro but is available for users to download later and use when/if they need it.

Nothing I have said is meant as a slam about TC or your work. Maybe this is not the distro for me for now, but I want it to be so bad.........

Give me some time and I will play and dig around some more and see if I cant find a corner to hang out in. -John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 14, 2012, 12:09:15 PM
OK, I have been doing some thinking about it. I look at programming like I do at golf. I always knew I could do it but never wanted to give the time that it would take to do it. Two years ago I would have laughed at some one if they would have told me that I would tern into a golf fanatic and now be a mod for a large online golf community.  :o

 ::) What the hell...........

Besides downloading the fltk apps, what else would I need? A "C" IDE I would imagine of some kind. Any suggestions on this? I like LXDE for my desktop but I guess I could set up another TC in a VBox with FLDE(?) as a base model and set it up for programming as long as I know what apps to download.

Any online tuts that you guys can think of would help me allot to get started....

-John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: Rich on March 14, 2012, 12:22:42 PM
Hi konaexpress
Just follow curagas instructions in reply #5.
If you click on the icon at the bottom of the screen that looks like a disc drive, the mount tool will pop up,
no need for the command line to mount a drive.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: vinnie on March 14, 2012, 05:49:11 PM
I frankly do not care much about the interface design, only one thing I have to criticize, is really wrong to create an interface with the font not editable (or editable with much difficulty, like having to recompile), basically means to make life difficult for those who have problems of view (me included).
is this is a real shame considering that the fltk are really fast and they are also scalable: I remember this flkt 1 program, with the interface font scalable http://nut.sourceforge.net/
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: curaga on March 15, 2012, 09:52:37 AM
That's true, an env var etc could be added to change the default font size. While readable, the buttons etc wouldn't stretch though (standard fltk behavior), so using a much bigger font wouldn't look too good.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 21, 2012, 11:00:05 AM
I know this is not much and kinda ugly but it is what I have until I can figure out an icon/png that will replace the ugly buttons. Fluid is kinda neat but not the most intuitive program. I will have to figure out a button/png size for this to work. For now, every thing is big so that my old eyes can see it at 2 in the morning. ;D

I could go in another direction if any one has any ideas.

-John

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6223/6857394658_1f1090627d_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mynetbookos/6857394658/)
Screen shot 2012-03-21 at 10.46.48 AM (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mynetbookos/6857394658/) by The Kona Express (http://www.flickr.com/people/mynetbookos/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 21, 2012, 02:01:13 PM
How about this?

-John


(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/7003973637_061b255a54_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mynetbookos/7003973637/)
Screen shot 2012-03-21 at 1.56.02 PM (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mynetbookos/7003973637/) by The Kona Express (http://www.flickr.com/people/mynetbookos/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: vinnie on March 21, 2012, 04:35:43 PM
Ops.
is nice, but I really just enough to change the font :) (because we must also consider the small monitors!)
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 21, 2012, 08:58:06 PM
Yea, it is kinda big. I am doing this on a 24 inch screen. If I figure this out, I will shrink it down. Sorry! ;D

-John

EDIT: Do these things scale? ;D Or do I change my screen name to "Wing Nut"?
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: curaga on March 22, 2012, 05:38:12 AM
That's quite different to the existing one, I don't recall seeing Bluetooth or Accounts around ;)

(http://i44.tinypic.com/51o5tu.png)

Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: roberts on March 22, 2012, 06:56:03 AM
Duh bluetooth is not in the base!
From  the beginning, icons were to be kept to a minimum as they only contribute bloat!
Only wbar has a few system icons, and the system supports boot code of noicons. Icons are NOT required. To each their own. I prefer frugally funcational over icon bloat.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 22, 2012, 07:38:43 AM
That's quite different to the existing one, I don't recall seeing Bluetooth or Accounts around ;)

No, Bluetooth and accounts are not in the CP. I was just screwing around to see if I could do it and get the hang of Fluid.  ;D

Quote
Duh bluetooth is not in the base!
From  the beginning, icons were to be kept to a minimum as they only contribute bloat!
Only wbar has a few system icons, and the system supports boot code of noicons. Icons are NOT required. To each their own. I prefer frugally funcational over icon bloat.

That is cool, I will scrap the CP idea.  8) I will find something else to bang on. ;D
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: curaga on March 22, 2012, 07:54:48 AM
If you want to make an user-friendly control panel, with a bluetooth helper included for example, we'd gladly accept it as an extension.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: Rich on March 22, 2012, 08:07:42 AM
Hi konaexpress
As has been pointed out before, Tinycore is a toolkit that provides a basic system that you can customize to
your own personal needs and taste. Whether you are trying to customize your control panel or just trying to
learn how things work, you benefit either way. If icons is what you want, you can find a lot of them in
gnome-icon-theme.tcz  under  usr/local/share/icons/gnome. As far as bloat goes, while roberts aims for
minimum and some distros aim for maximum. you might feel there's a happy median somewhere in
between, so feel free to play.
 
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: roberts on March 22, 2012, 09:16:53 AM
If you want to make an user-friendly control panel, with a bluetooth helper included for example, we'd gladly accept it as an extension.
We have a policy to not allow overwiriting of base system functions. As that would make the system impossible to document let alone support.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 22, 2012, 04:53:18 PM
It's all good guys, I'm not going do do anything to dork-up your distro. ;D

I was just trying to help out. I guess I didn't get the full idea behind TC and what it is about.  TC is a cool distro and I plan on hanging on to it, so like I said, I will find something to do. ;D

Keep up the great work you are doing.

-John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: vinnie on March 22, 2012, 05:31:15 PM
Code: [Select]
We have a policy to not allow overwiriting of base system functions. As that would make the system impossible to document let alone support.
is not too excessive?
basically an extension that gives a graphical alternative to the tool could make happy the moles like me.

you do not like to make her happy?
(http://www.moleandpestcontrol.net/Images/Happy_Mole.jpg)

Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: roberts on March 23, 2012, 09:37:39 AM
@vinnie
If you cannot agree with the design principles of Core, then why use it?
From the beginning small size, quick booting, dynamic extensions, built on a solid base of a functionally frugal GUI with package management. To suggest that the base be expanded or overwritten for "user friendly icons" is to not agree with the foundations that make Core unique. If icons throughout the system is your requirement then I would suggest that you peruse some of 700+ other distributions as reported by Distrowatch.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 23, 2012, 03:53:55 PM
ouch!
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: vinnie on March 23, 2012, 04:08:05 PM
I would agree with you if we were talking about replacing the gui in the base distribution, but i hypotized in an "alternative".

Following your argument anything in repository replace a base feature tool is no good, for example any docbar should be out of play due to the fact that we have wbar.

For the rest, hope you're not angry with me because I noticed a bit of resentment in your words (but maybe I'm wrong).
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: solorin on March 24, 2012, 01:29:33 AM
Very contented user/?extension packager? for about a year. 3.6 or so I think. Thanks and appreciation for everyone's hard work which makes Core suck less.

My journey was Tinycore->Microcore->Core. And I will very contentedly continue to use Core  how it is now and conceivably into the future.  I am in general enthusiastic agreement with Core's principles. And I understand it takes a certain willingness to say no to things in order to produce something in accord to those principles.

A distribution has a balance of qualities - off the top of my head - flexibility(across use cases, hardware, setup), size efficiency, speed efficiency, extendability, user-friendliness(to beginner, intermediate, expert), and community-openness(support). Sometimes, of course tradeoffs must be made between them. I am not interested in marketing Core/Tinycore/Coreplus, but if I was I'd examine these qualities and the continually changing environment in which they are being presented and make those tradeoffs accordingly.

All this to simply say, my statements are suggestions and not criticisms, and if these points have been considered and thought about already, chock this post up to forum noise. I am not interested in any negativity, only in fun, freedom-loving, and functional software/UX's/DX's(developer experiences).

I suppose there might be lingering confusion about what is actually considered "base".  One of the three ISO's being offered is ostensibly labeled Core, which would lead most people to believe that this provides all the base functionality. But earlier in this thread, "a frugally functional GUI" is asserted as part of "a solid base".  So which one is it? Is the Core team focused on the Tinycore iso or the Core iso as the base? Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out that this will lead to subtle differences in design priorities, usage patterns, and developer actions.

The second question that comes to mind pertains to community openness. It seems to me that the OP is motivated by a positive and enthusiastic desire to help improve Core.  To what extent are the current Core developers willing to support or collaborate with people like him?

This control panel for example:  Some of the press about this distro does mention aesthetics as a barrier to wider adoption. What if the OP managed to make a cpanel that was just as functional and frugal, if not more frugal, but slightly prettier? As it is currently, say he packages that up as the extension cpanel**.tcz, for all practical purposes, users who want to use that extension would have to install it alongside the current cpanel. Thereby duplicating functionality, resulting in 'bloat' for them.  This leads to the deliberation of the first point, the result of which would determine what use cases are best served by this distro.

tl;dr
I very much admire the OP's creativity, energy and enthusiasm, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of his aesthetic taste. ;)

cheerio everyone,
solorin
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: hiro on March 24, 2012, 04:37:25 AM
Too long didn't read
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: bmarkus on March 24, 2012, 05:09:04 AM
Thanks and appreciation for everyone's hard work which makes Core suck less.


Nice starting. You are missing the basics of TC as well as press you are quiting:

Quote
Some of the press about this distro does mention aesthetics as a barrier to wider adoption

TC is not a generic distro like UBUNTU, MANDRIVE, SuSe, ... If TC sucks, forget it, it is not for you. There are plenty of others to play with.


Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: solorin on March 24, 2012, 05:42:58 AM
@hiro. Lol.

@bmarkus.
>You are missing the basics of TC as well as press you are quiting:
Not sure I understand you. but I think you maybe you misunderstand.
I definitely don't think Core sucks. I've been using it as my primary OS for over a year.
suck less is just my joking way of saying Core's really great.
Which basics do you think I'm missing exactly?

>There are plenty of others to play with.
It would be interesting to see the Core community mature Core to a serious dependable tool
for varied use cases, instead of limiting it to hobbyists. But, I don't really care. As I said, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm only interested in staying positive.

cheerio,
solorin
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: bmarkus on March 24, 2012, 05:45:56 AM
You wrote:

Quote
Thanks and appreciation for everyone's hard work which makes Core suck less.

Anyhow, I'm not interested to debate wether you wrote or not what you wrote.

"Life is very short and I have no time fighting and fighting..."
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: roberts on March 24, 2012, 05:46:56 AM
I suppose there might be lingering confusion about what is actually considered "base".  One of the three ISO's being offered is ostensibly labeled Core, which would lead most people to believe that this provides all the base functionality. But earlier in this thread, "a frugally functional GUI" is asserted as part of "a solid base".  So which one is it? Is the Core team focused on the Tinycore iso or the Core iso as the base? Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out that this will lead to subtle differences in design priorities, usage patterns, and developer actions.
Regardless, if you view Xprogs.tcz as a now bonafide extension then it should be afforded the same respect as any other extension explicitly covered by http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,5287.0.html
Quote
The second question that comes to mind pertains to community openness.
With 3,739 extensions available for Core would seem to suggest it is open to the community. Over the years only a few "improvements" have been rejected. First I recall an individual demanded his tcz uninstall program be included in the base. It did not meet standards. Second, more recently, an individual demanded that sqlite and his 400k command line program be a replacement for Core's package manager. Most recent is the call for us to use unionfs/aufs. And now this episode. The OP stated that CP is ugly. Apparently because it does not use icons.

Not everything that anyone wants will be accepted. Core is not going to become Core-less. Basic design philosophies will be enforced. If you disagree with my decisions then as I wrote earlier there are many other distro choices available.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: hiro on March 24, 2012, 06:35:18 AM
If you want to make an user-friendly control panel, with a bluetooth helper included for example, we'd gladly accept it as an extension.
We have a policy to not allow overwiriting of base system functions. As that would make the system impossible to document let alone support.

If it is accessible via a second binary and icon would you call it "overwriting of base system functions"?
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: gutmensch on March 24, 2012, 08:38:41 AM
If it is accessible via a second binary and icon would you call it "overwriting of base system functions"?

Well, it would have to interfere with the base system functions to be of some use. What's if it is not updated regularly? I'm already seeing topics like "my remaster icon CP is not working with Core x.y". Especially since TC is under rapid development ;) Lets turn this whole discussion into a more productive one... loads of icons for some nice eye-candy is not an option and everyone should be able to recognize this. It must be possible to generate nice icons on the fly, we could borrow some ideas from the 4k demo scene, eh?! :P A better design preserving the same size of the original CP is also surely worth a discussion! Core and Tiny Core just *have to be* more compromise-less than other OS'. That's the deal of it all - see it as a challenge, not a frontier. :)
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 24, 2012, 08:50:22 AM
Dang guys! I so did not intend this topic to go this way. :o     

Roberts has made a decision and that is that. I'm not mad or do I feel dismissed, I simply misunderstood the Core idea. I will try and find a different way to help out.

This thread has now become useless and I am asking a mod to lock it down. THE END.

So sorry -John
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: hiro on March 24, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
koanaexpress, just go to North Korea, there you get locked up for even thinking about using stupid wimpy Icons.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: vinnie on March 24, 2012, 10:56:14 AM
Quote
And now this episode. The OP stated that CP is ugly. Apparently because it does not use icons.

let me just say that you are a little unfair with me, I only said it would be nice if you could scale the fonts because I see little.

Quote
is nice, but I really just enough to change the font :) (because we must also consider the small monitors!)

Icons do not truly interest me much (I have also a small screen that would occupy the space useful to me).

However, I feel I could encourage people who wanted to do something that does not seem so bad.
And even if I say something wrong (with a simple "is not too excessive?") I believe that we should be more willing to dialogue rather than belligerence.
Title: Re: The Control Panel
Post by: konaexpress on March 24, 2012, 09:54:51 PM
Got it! Locked............