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Author Topic: Xorg 7.5  (Read 17579 times)

Offline curaga

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Xorg 7.5
« on: June 06, 2010, 09:24:57 AM »
Xorg 7.5 now available!

Highlights from 7.4 include new hardware support, such as Nvidia ION, and 3d support for Radeon r600/r700.

With this modularized release, pick either Xorg-7.5.tcz or Xorg-7.5-3d.tcz and all deps shall be gotten for you (with the possible exception of firmware; Radeon 3d requires the firmware.tcz extension, for example).

Minimum requirement is 3.0alpha5.

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-3d.tcz
Description:    Accelerated 3d drivers
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      12.8M
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:       If you want Xorg with 3d, this extension is all you
      need.
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/28 Original

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-bin.tcz
Description:    Binaries from Xorg
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      304.0K
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:       All binaries from Xorg that don't have dependencies.
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/28 Original

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-dev.tcz
Description:    X development files
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      1.8M
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:      
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/06/01 Original

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-lib.tcz
Description:    Xorg 7.5 libraries
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      176.0K
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:       This extension supercedes Xlibs_support.tcz.
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/28 Original

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5.tcz
Description:    X.org server
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      9.8M
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:       To run confless, restart X after loading the extension.
      If you need to configure something, such as a keymap, or
      have trouble with autodetection, create a xorg.conf.
.
      If you are only looking to get software 3D
      and no accel, instead of creating a config file
      suitable for your hardware like below, you can rename
      /etc/X11/xorg.conf.vesa to xorg.conf.
.
      To get Xorg with accel, exit to prompt,
                get a root console (sudo su), and then
      Xorg -configure
.
      Edit the newly created config file as needed.
      When ready copy it to /etc/X11 named xorg.conf.
      Remember to add this file to your backup (/opt/.filetool.lst)
      or save it some other way.
.
      See Xorg-7.5-3d.tcz for acceleration.
.
      Please note, for AGP or integrated AGP cards such as Intel
      chips you will always need graphics-KERNEL.tcz.
.
      Tips on 3D and X keymaps can be found in
      /etc/X11/README.xorg.conf.
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/28 Original


The following two drivers are separate, because they hang/segfault X -configure. If you need either one, it needs to be grabbed separately.

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-vmware.tcz
Description:    VMWare Xorg driver
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      28K
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:      
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/31 Original

Quote
Title:          Xorg-7.5-xgi.tcz
Description:    XGI (/XP) Xorg driver
Version:        7.5 (1.7.7)
Author:      Various
Original-site:  http://x.org
Copying-policy: X11
Size:      164K
Extension_by:   Curaga
Comments:      
Change-log:    
Current:        2010/05/31 Original
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline jur

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 02:54:17 AM »
Right. Just a quick 1-for-1 replacement didn't work - it failed to start. Had a quick sniff around but haven't found anything obvious yet.

Offline curaga

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 03:45:27 AM »
Log & dmesg? Also, if this is an Intel chip, remember to remove all "nomodeset", "modeset=0" etc params, Intel on 7.5 requires KMS.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline Arslan S.

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 05:06:02 AM »
are you planning to adjust all dep files ?
Xorg-7.4 --> Xorg-7.5
Xorg-7.4-dev --> Xorg-7.5-dev
Xlibs_support --> Xorg-7.5-lib

Offline jur

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 05:06:47 AM »
Thanks, just back from the garage working on my bicycle; saw your nomodeset tip and it worked. Thanks!

Offline curaga

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 05:51:59 AM »
are you planning to adjust all dep files ?
Xorg-7.4 --> Xorg-7.5
Xorg-7.4-dev --> Xorg-7.5-dev
Xlibs_support --> Xorg-7.5-lib

Only the last two, after a couple of days. For the first one, as extensions are rebuilt against 7.5 the makers can adjust the deps.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline Arslan S.

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 07:25:39 AM »
Only the last two, after a couple of days. For the first one, as extensions are rebuilt against 7.5 the makers can adjust the deps.

is rebuilding really needed ? i have tested a few extensions no problem so far, extensions tested are :
nvidia-glx, dreamchess, gnome-desktop-base

edit: more tests: compiz-base, compiz-gnome, all ok
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 09:58:20 AM by Arslan S. »

Offline curaga

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 10:03:31 AM »
Possibly not, but instead of forcing the change it's better to let it come naturally. Also lessening some deps, if 3d is not necessary Xorg-7.5-lib might be enough.

At least the Nvidia driver should be rebuilt, for as a Xorg driver running against a different server might cause undefined behavior.
edit: or you could have one for 7.4 and one for 7.5, as both can be used in 3.x.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 10:05:28 AM by curaga »
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline Arslan S.

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2010, 10:50:35 AM »
nvidia has no source to build except kernel interface layer

why not just convert everything and only rebuild extensions that really needs it ?

otherwise one may mess up with Xorg-7.4 and Xorg-7.5 installed at the same time :)

btw i have Xorg-7.5 and nvidia-glx installed but i didn't load Xorg-7.5-3d, what is really in it, some open source drivers ?

Online bmarkus

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2010, 11:04:04 AM »
There were applications, like Google Earth did not work with Xorg 7.4 on Intel Graphic chips, 915, 945, ...

With Xorg 7.5 Google Earth is running fine with 945 on my notebook. Great !  :-*
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Offline curaga

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 11:32:56 AM »
nvidia has no source to build except kernel interface layer

Oh, then you could just remove Xorg from the dep file and tell to pick either version in the info.

Quote
why not just convert everything and only rebuild extensions that really needs it ?

We don't know which they are, it's better for the extension maintainers to handle it.

Quote
otherwise one may mess up with Xorg-7.4 and Xorg-7.5 installed at the same time :)

btw i have Xorg-7.5 and nvidia-glx installed but i didn't load Xorg-7.5-3d, what is really in it, some open source drivers ?

Yeah, the Mesa drivers.
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline jur

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2010, 03:00:03 PM »
Might be good to do something about all the extensions that have Xorg-7.4 as dep, to either duplicate them temporarily with Xorg-7.5, or perhaps to list them somewhere so users can edit the dep files after every update.

Offline maro

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2010, 04:41:44 PM »
I'd like to add my vote to those that are proposing a more "brute force migration". By this I mean a bulk update of the dependency files.

I'm not saying to do it in the next 24h, but don't wait for many weeks or month with it. Because as we have seen with the long running "openssl saga" many maintainers don't care, don't know or forget about it and choose or leave the old version in the .dep files. That means the new version does not really get tested. Even freshly build extensions in that case were continuing to refer to the old version. In my view a bit a forceful approach is quite in order here. In particular as TC 3.0 is not yet declared stable I see more of a chance to break things now then at a later point in time. OTOH lets face it: TC is (at least in my view) not really meant to be as "rock-solid" as RH.

If my counting is not off there are 32 extensions in the 3.x repository that depend on Xorg-7.4.tcz directly. Add to this 10 extensions which refer to Xorg-7.4-dev.tcz. I wonder how many of those really need the "full" Xorg extension or if some could get away for example with Xorg-7.5-bin.tcz. In any case it should be really well understood what aspect of any 'Xorg' extension it is that another one needs. For example some application might "just work" with Xorg-7.5.tcz but it would have already done so with 'Xvesa', but using Xorg-7.5-3d.tcz is what really makes a difference. OTOH it's the question to which degree our .dep files should reflect "minimal requirements" or "best performance". IMHO the .dep file should only include the absolute minimum and anything else should be noted in the .info file.

I also tried to find out who are the maintainers of those 32 extensions:
Code: [Select]
grep "Xorg-7.4\." *.dep | sed 's#\.dep.*##' | while read e ; do
        t=$( grep 'Title' ${e}.info | tr '\t' ' ' | sed 's#.*:  *##' )
        m=$( grep 'Extension_by' ${e}.info | tr '\t' ' ' | sed 's#.*:  *##' )
        printf "%-30s%s\n" "$m" "$t"
done | sort
Althalus                      plt.tcz
Arslan S.                     cairo-clock.tcz
Arslan S.                     clutter.tcz
Arslan S.                     compiz-base.tcz
Arslan S.                     compiz-gnome.tcz
Arslan S.                     compiz.tcz
Arslan S.                     dreamchess.tcz
Arslan S.                     freeglut.tcz
Arslan S.                     ftgl-dev.tcz
Arslan S.                     ftgl.tcz
Arslan S.                     gnome-desktop-base.tcz
Arslan S.                     gtkglext.tcz
Arslan S.                     hedgewars.tcz
Arslan S.                     nvidia-glx.tcz
Arslan S.                     pinball.tcz
Arslan S.                     projectM.tcz
Arslan S.                     teeworlds.tcz
Arslan S.                     vinagre.tcz
Arslan S.                     vino.tcz
Curaga                        Mplayer-xorg.tcz
Curaga, Robert Schumann       wine-gl-dev.tcz
Curaga, Robert Schumann       wine-gl.tcz
Jason W                       kdelibs-3.5.10.tcz
SvOlli                        qt-4.5-opengl.tcz
SvOlli                        qt-4.x-opengl.tcz
bmarkus                       bigforth.tcz
bmarkus                       lxrandr.tcz
bmarkus                       xplanet.tcz
juanito                       synaptics.tcz
robc                          mupen64plus.tcz
robc                          recordmydesktop-gtk.tcz
wonderfulll                   xf86-video-unichrome.tcz
So a lot of the responsibility rests with just a few people. Maybe we can spread out some of the testing, but I hate to admit that I'm not a regular user of any of those so my "expertise" in helping out might be rather limited.

Furthermore trying to create new extensions to extend the usability of 'Xorg-7.4' is in my view fatal. It would only increase the confusion. I'm of the opinion that a "short & sharp" period of "pain", is much better than a "long suffering". Therefore a speedy change from Xlibs_support.tcz to Xorg-7.5-lib.tcz might be the first thing to do.

If people see the need I could try to undertake a similar analysis (based on 'ldd') as I once did for 'openssl'. I'm just worried that it might take a few days and I urgently need to send my (main) laptop into repair before the warranty runs out. That limits my ability of doing this in the short term.

If a "forceful migration" in the near future is not acceptable I'd like to propose that at least no update of any extension (and no new one) makes it into the repository that still uses Xorg-7.4.tcz (or Xlibs_support.tcz). That way the issue should at least not continue to grow over time.

Offline Arslan S.

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2010, 09:57:40 PM »
maro thanks for the list, i was wondering how many extensions out there that depends on Xorg-7.4, i will test one by one and rebuild/update if required

my opinion is that there should not be two versions of same extension in the repository

most of the extensions which i created depends on Xorg because they are 3D applications, some games, OpenGL based libraries and a desktop which requires xkb, some Xorg executables, xrandr etc.

major version of OpenGL is same libGL.so.1 in Xorg-7.4 and Xorg-7.5

Offline maro

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Re: Xorg 7.5
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2010, 10:04:00 PM »
Arslan, I trust you are aware which executables are now available via Xorg-7.5-bin.tcz (e.g. 'xrandr' being one of them). Hence that might reduce the requirements in a disk-space friendly way.