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Author Topic: Unable to use live USB of Tiny Core Linux as a boot option in BIOS settings  (Read 345 times)

Offline ferociousmadman

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I have an Acer Nitro AN515-54. Recently, I created a live bootable USB for CorePlus-current (this is Tiny Core Linux Plus). However, in the BIOS settings, no USB is showing up as a boot option.

Secure boot and fast boot are both disabled. UEFI is the only option available (Legacy is not available, nor are there any other options). This is not changeable because Acer only has UEFI as an option. They have intentionally removed legacy as an option (or any other options as an option).

Furthermore, this stick works properly, just not on this machine. I've tried each of the 3 ports, and get the same result each time. I have the latest BIOS firmware as well, so that is not an issue.

Also, in the bios, I enabled the f12 boot option and I also assigned an admin/supervisor password just in case. With the stick inserted, I pressed f12, and the option did not appear under those conditions either.

At this point I'm kind of at my wits' end as to how to fix this problem on this machine, and need help with being able to boot from the USB as a live option. I am not interested in installing this in a dual partition.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 11:55:22 AM by ferociousmadman »

Offline Juanito

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The only iso set up for dual bios/uefi boot is TinyCorePure64.

You would need to use the grub2-multi extension to create a uefi boot usb stick with other versions of tinycore.

Offline PDP-8

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I just went through this recently on a modern Intel NUC running UEFI only.

If you just intend to burn TinyCorePure64 with either dd in unix, or most windows type usb burners, you end up with an iso9660 file format on the usb stick.  And that's fine for just doing a live boot environment, and storing your data elsewhere on another filesystem.

BUT, with some UEFI environments, the ability to boot "optical" drives may have to be found in your bios setup.  I had the same problem you did with the NUC, and then found the "boot optical" option and enabled that.   Reason being that when some modern computers see iso9660 bootable file formats, they *sometimes* assume an optical drive, and some lock that out from booting for security reasons - which your dd'ed stick looks like to the computer at this point.

If that's still a problem, then Juanito's suggestion to build a system yourself, which uses ext3/4 etc filesystems, *will* be recognized by modern machines that may balk at booting "optical" (whether real mechanical, or just dd'ed iso's on usb) systems.

Personally, I found the latest Knoppix has all the tools to build a TinyCorePure64 uefi stick that doesn't look like a cdrom following Juanito's instructions in the threads.

Depending on how badly you need it, there is an unsupported way to do it, but I'll hold off on that suggestion for now.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 11:05:41 PM by PDP-8 »
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Offline vinceASPECT

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Hello  there ,

Hope that there is a workaround.

maybe swapping in OR out, a counterpart machine , then persue the alternate set-up
in counterpart scenario. 
 
What-ever the goal or purpose is, is to keep it in focus.....while also taking due care since
setting up machine(s) which are "not" in positions to be compromised needs due care.

 "Universal" SB, is as it suggests......"Universal"........ There shouldn't be a reason for non comparability.

Perhaps, the machine didn't like the earlier bios updates (firmware) ......which did cause incompatibility.

You sound to be competent , doing firm(w)  upgrades  (since they are ..........O__0.......

perhaps  firmware is reversable  (Downgrades........although seems not likely)

Say your goal is to run OS's on a machine..............the peripherals ?

0).....CD or \Dvd drive (burner)
1) ....Hard Drive  HDD
2).....Network
3).....RAM  (memory


Above, there can be chance to run OS .   It can be difficult , one could research that particular machine model number.   (gripes)   The machines web site which has driver(s)  stacks.
 
 Sir,/Madam.... it is an incompatibility.   ....and alternative(s) to run OS are required.

right.

Thx

V

 

Offline PDP-8

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Vince - on the right track.  Ferocios' Nitro computer is pretty modern, and when placed into UEFI-only, (no csm or legacy), the ability to boot from a stick masquerading as an optical cd/dvd may be missing.  A custom built stick is a different story, and that's always a good option.  Juanito's directions to do that in another thread work fine.  But for the quick live deal, here we go ...

Getting the details for the Nitro box' internal setup routines would be ideal.  Lacking that, the generic steps would be tried something like this:

With a TinyCorePure64 image dd'ed, (or Etchered, or Rufus'ed with DD mode), resulting in basically a "cd" on a usb stick with the iso9660 format I'd:

1) Insert stick into machine, and see if a quick-boot can be used.  If the direct boot of the usb stick doesn't work, BUT there now appears a cd/dvd option to boot from, try that.  (the iso9660 fs tricks the Nitro into thinking it is looking at an optical drive).

2) If that fails, get into the machine setup, and look for the ability to even recognize or boot from a cd/dvd.  Place that as the first in the list to boot.  Yes, even though we are using a usb stick, in this instance of a simple dd makes it look like an iso9660 cd to the machine.

3) If no options appear, one may have to enter a supervisor-password.  WRITE THIS DOWN somewhere!  In some machines, having a supervisor password is needed to activate grayed-out, or even invisible options that normal users wouldn't see.

There are boxes out there like some Dell's, that will look for a cd/dvd, but you must enter a specific value given out by the manufacturer - ie, "create" the ability for the internal setup to know it can now deal with cd/dvd optical drives.

I'd love to see TC64 running on that Nitro laptop!



« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 04:03:49 AM by PDP-8 »
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Online Rich

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Hi ferociousmadman
Grab yourself another USB stick and follow coreplayer2s instructions here:
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,22848.msg143377.html#msg143377
and see if that boots on your machine. Be sure to read reply #39 also.

Offline vinceASPECT

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Hello,  Thanks for the thread learnings.

It seems that EUFI bios is somewhat bewildering in it's nature....?

Extended firmware bios ,......... though only extended  through large efforst and needing future auxiliary assistance from hardware manufacturer(s)  Oh............O__0............

 .....there could be a whole ocean of openings of cans worms there with licence's or red-tape from the EUFI manufacturers end..

Yes, many ideals (need to also be realistic), not withstanding  accrediting the learning along the way.
.......(Core64 running on said machine)

There is a "media" which opens some machines for all possible boot scenarios. The name escapes me.......>>>>>>>>>>  hmmmmmm

"Plop"  boot file..............is the name. .......which is freemium? .

https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html

This "Plop file" may somehow sit on a "media" source--CD-disc ........a Bootable media source from the machines EUFI bios boot list.......

......then plop boots with the machine & LISTS newer boot  media-drive options that are available
(maybe USB). 

Sort of chain-booting.

Thx

Vin

 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 01:24:33 AM by vinceASPECT »

Offline vinceASPECT

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Plop

........."https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagers.html

........it says, many features include .........."USB boot without BIOS support (UHCI, OHCI and EHCI).........."

Thx

Vin

Offline vinceASPECT

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https://www.plop.at/en/bootmgr-new.html

...........UEFI version....... of PLOP is there above........thx

...........burn "Plop" tiny .iso file.......it should then boot to it, offering you further USB boot etc

It's ver recent......and is not clear if the dev has put UEFI support in yet......or  not......?


Vin

The LINUX version below has  EFI support

https://www.plop.at/en/plopkexec/intro.html

PlopKexec is a Linux Kernel based boot manager for auto detecting and chain loading Linux distributions on USB and CD/DVD drives. You can start PlopKexec from CD, USB or any Linux loader/boot manager. To start PlopKexec from floppy use the 0.3 version because of the size. You can boot Linux from USB even if there is no Bios USB support.

V
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 08:57:11 AM by vinceASPECT »

Offline vinceASPECT

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Hello,

The previous post references a website & that site also references this extra freemium "tool" below. 

http://www.solemnwarning.net/kexec-loader/

(it is small to burn to CD )

using Kexec.    This free tool should (easily) get  TC64 running on that Nitro Laptop.  (3 mins)

thx

kexec, abbreviated from kernel execution and analogous to the Unix/Linux kernel call exec, is a mechanism of the Linux kernel that allows booting of a new kernel from the currently running one. Essentially, kexec skips the bootloader stage and hardware initialization phase performed by the system firmware (BIOS or UEFI), and directly loads the new kernel into main memory and starts executing it immediately. This avoids the long times associated with a full reboot, and can help systems to meet high-availability requirements by minimizing downtime.

V
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 10:26:47 AM by vinceASPECT »

Online Rich

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Re: Unable to use live USB of Tiny Core Linux as a boot option in BIOS settings
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2019, 11:08:18 AM »
Hi vinceASPECT
... kexec, abbreviated from kernel execution and analogous to the Unix/Linux kernel call exec, is a mechanism of the Linux kernel that allows booting of a new kernel from the currently running one. Essentially, kexec skips the bootloader stage and hardware initialization phase performed by the system firmware (BIOS or UEFI), and directly loads the new kernel into main memory and starts executing it immediately. This avoids the long times associated with a full reboot, and can help systems to meet high-availability requirements by minimizing downtime. ...
In order to know what you are talking about you need to read all of the words, not just the ones that interest you.

This section which you did not highlight seems rather pertinent:
Code: [Select]
... is a mechanism of the Linux kernel that allows booting of a new kernel from the currently running one. ... Translation: A Linux kernel must first be booted in order to use  kexec.  That kernel will still have to contend with UEFI.

Online Rich

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Re: Unable to use live USB of Tiny Core Linux as a boot option in BIOS settings
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2019, 11:27:22 AM »
Hi vinceASPECT
https://www.plop.at/en/bootmgr-new.html

...........UEFI version....... of PLOP is there above........thx

...........burn "Plop" tiny .iso file.......it should then boot to it, offering you further USB boot etc

It's ver recent......and is not clear if the dev has put UEFI support in yet......or  not......? ...
It states (emphasis is mine):
Quote
The new boot manager is written from scratch. Planed features are

    Full USB 1.1/2.0/3.0 support (thumbs, hard disks, floppys, optical drives, keyboards, hubs, maybe mouse)
    PC-Card (PCMCIA) flash disk support
    PCI Express support
    VHD support
    (U)EFI support
    GPT support
    Simple text mode, enhanced text mode, gfx mode
    Support various file systems (FAT12/16/32, Ext2/3/4, limited NTFS, limited HFS+)
    Native Linux Kernel boot
    Native AHCI support
    Modular
    Simple shell

And if you took a second to scroll down just a little bit you'd see (once again, emphasis is mine):
Quote
Known issues:

    Various orange chars on startup: Just debug stuff. Will be removed later.
    USB3: There is no driver included at the moment. I am working on it. To use a device with the boot manager, you have to connect the device to the USB 2 port. Also in a Virtual Machine.
    UEFI: There is no UEFI support at the moment. Starting the boot manager with UEFI will end in an error.
    There is no MBR installation at the moment. See 'Starting the boot manager' for various ways to start the boot manager.
    There is no configuration file to configure the boot manager.
    You can not configure the boot manager with Linux Command Line Parameters.
    Starting the boot manager from the Windows Boot Menu: Currently is only Windows Vista/7/8/10 supported, because "bcdedit" must be used.
    Floppy drive is not accessible after booting.
    Booting floppy from the boot manager is not supported at the moment. Neither a builtin nor an USB floppy drive.
    Licence: Currently, the boot manager is free personal use. It is not free for commercial use.

Offline PDP-8

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Re: Unable to use live USB of Tiny Core Linux as a boot option in BIOS settings
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2019, 04:18:56 PM »
Vince - no need for all that.

I guess I wasn't making myself clear, and I've seen many threads elsewhere that derail like this thinking it's a UEFI issue, whereas it is a security-issue on some modern machines *that just happen to be uefi-only*, where the ability to boot from a cd/dvd is locked out unless you take steps to open it up.

Yes, this is avoided by simply following Juanito's excellent instructions for creating a dual-boot mbr/uefi stick where the stick does NOT look like a bootable cd.

BUT, if one just does a "dd" or burn of an iso to a usb stick, on *some* modern machines that just happen to be uefi-only, they have the ability to disable booting from what they see as an optical drive - whether it is a real spinning disk, or a usb stick that has been formatted as bootable with the iso9660 as a partition on it.

That's why I wanted to point this out to any lurkers - if you do just a simple dd, or use Etcher or any other burner to the TinyCorePure64 iso, what you have is a bootable cd emulation as far as the computer is concerned.  And if your computer has the ability to boot from an optical drive not set, it won't boot due to security settings in the bios/setup, NOT because of UEFI.

In essence all you have to do is one of two things:

1) Create a dual-boot stick following Juanito's instructions.

or - if you want to operate from an iso like just a live read-only cd:

2) Go into your computer bios/setup, and enable the ability to boot from an optical drive, *IF* you are simply going to burn an iso image, which has an iso9660 as the major partition to operate from.  My Intel NUC actually *evaluates* the drive before allowing it to boot, and if it sees iso9660 - it won't - Unless I tell the setup that it is OK to boot optical, which the burned usb iso looks like to it with no spinning plastic. :)

So despite all this, it is NOT a UEFI issue.  Just some modern rigs won't boot iso's from usb unless you let them.  If you can't, or just don't want to do that, another solution is just as simple:

Follow Juanito's instructions.  I've done it both ways.
That's a UNIX book! - cool  -- Garth

Offline vinceASPECT

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Re: Unable to use live USB of Tiny Core Linux as a boot option in BIOS settings
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2019, 06:21:56 PM »
Hello,

Ok ..........Hello

......well, in my  experience, the tools i mentioned will solve issues regarding machines with non compliant boot media issues.

I do refer anybody to the irony of naming conventions .  "Universal". 

many thx

Vin
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 06:47:07 PM by vinceASPECT »