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Poll

(see Reply #24) For you, guix.tcz is :

A TCZ building helper ?
0 (0%)
A "GCZ" building helper ? (keeping isolated guix files hierarchy)
1 (33.3%)
A curious crazy toy
0 (0%)
obi wan kenobi (a geek's joke!)
1 (33.3%)
Or simply guix.tcz
1 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: Request guix for TC9 x86  (Read 2172 times)

Offline flavien

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Request guix for TC9 x86
« on: January 14, 2019, 04:57:54 AM »
Hello!
It would be great to get TCZs (for TC9 x86) :
  • lirc*
  • lcdproc*
  • guix
*(should contains kernel files)

Maybe help for Guix : https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Binary-Installation.html#Binary-Installation

I'm a new TC user (just since some days ago), so i'm not sure to produce good TCZ files now.
Sorry for my poor english speaking.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 05:03:37 AM by flavien »

Offline flavien

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Re: Request lirc(should containt kernel files)+lcdproc+guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 05:00:55 AM »
Oops. "One thread for extension".
Sorry!
This thread is for guix ;)

Offline Juanito

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 05:29:37 AM »
Isn't guix an os/package management system?

Offline flavien

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 07:11:23 AM »
Yes, but in user space.
It does not depend of any distribution.
It's like snapd, but as a real package manager, with shared libraries (but multi versions)
Theorically, i can, for example, get full kodi-18-rc with all dependencies installed in the persistant context in 1 or 2 lines in terminal.  8)

Offline flavien

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 07:14:44 AM »
I will try to make it this month if nobody do it before, because it could be easy with available binaries releases

Online coreplayer2

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 07:30:07 AM »
Yes, but in user space.
As is APPS
Quote
Theorically, i can, for example, get full kodi-18-rc with all dependencies installed in the persistent context in 1 or 2 lines in terminal.  8)
Like APPS

Seems as if you haven't discovered APPS yet?

Offline flavien

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 08:00:57 AM »
Never heard about, but not sure it's the same.
Is this "OpenCollaborationServices" ?
If no, what's the difference?
If yes, APPS/OCS seems to be an abstract package management layer, but not a package manager.
It does't install anything, but command the distribution to do it. Right?

Guix is a real package manager, but to install packages and dependencies in user space without writing files out of /home...

Online coreplayer2

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 09:47:20 AM »
Flavien,   APPS is the Official GUI version of TinyCore extension management, find it on the wbar

From the command-line
Code: [Select]
tce-ab
tce-load
tce-audit

Online coreplayer2

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 10:11:49 AM »
Flavien,  I think you'd be smart to read the Core Book.  http://tinycorelinux.net/book.html

Offline flavien

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 12:10:42 PM »
I just forgot the TCE GUI name, as it's just a TCE frontend.
But sure I understand the TCE advantages, that's why i begin to use Tiny Core...
So APPS, alias TCE, can but does not install programs in user space (i mean like '/home'), but in rootfs (usualy in "/" root ramfs). But yes persistence allows keeping programs in user space (by squashfs or backup). Of course.

Guix is "same", but different.
To run GUIX on any distribution, you just have to install the daemon and run it.

I think TCE is perfect to deploy light packages and can offer various elegants "over mounts" strategies.
But for an as big as kodi program, it could be very hard to maintain (various architectures, run dependencies, build dependencies, compilation...)

GUIX packages theorically offer an absolute portability on any distributions.
So imagine you get your light tiny core environemment (like a swiss knife), and over it, you can deploy up to date big packages by using GUIX, then you don't have to maintain millions of TCE packages, as it's for light usage.


Last point:
You decide to update the GUIX part only? It will not affect tiny core.
You decide to update the tiny core part only? It will not affect GUIX installation.
You have two versions of tiny core using a same real home path?
Your GUIX programs could be available on each!



Online coreplayer2

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 06:27:37 PM »
I just forgot the TCE GUI name, as it's just a TCE frontend.
But sure I understand the TCE advantages,
No sorry but at present I don’t think you do..


Quote
I think TCE is perfect to deploy light packages and can offer various elegants "over mounts" strategies.
But for an as big as kodi program, it could be very hard to maintain (various architectures, run dependencies, build dependencies, compilation...)
Maybe you missed that KODI  is already in the repo..  it’s not that large.

Quote
GUIX packages theorically offer an absolute portability on any distributions.
So imagine you get your light tiny core environemment (like a swiss knife), and over it, you can deploy up to date big packages by using GUIX, then you don't have to maintain millions of TCE packages, as it's for light usage.

Last point:
You decide to update the GUIX part only? It will not affect tiny core.
You decide to update the tiny core part only? It will not affect GUIX installation.
You have two versions of tiny core using a same real home path?
Your GUIX programs could be available on each!

I hear what you’re selling, but I’m not buying it.. If the book didn’t make it clear I recommend you study the Core Concepts
http://tinycorelinux.net/concepts.html

Then imagine the Tinycore way



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Pats

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 12:31:24 AM »
Quote

Quote from: flavien on Today at 12:10:42 PM :
 ... But for an as big as kodi program, it could be very hard to maintain (various architectures, run dependencies, build dependencies, compilation...)


I have not used kodi in TC before and dont know  exact defination of *big programs* .

.. But prvs TCE  packages  like  JDK , Xine, Apache, Oracle,  MySQL , GIMP, LibreOffice , GNOME , Opera,   etc  may  not be big enough as per recent *big* or *heavy-weight* defination !  :)

Online coreplayer2

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 04:56:20 AM »
So, I have a 3D game which is around 10GiB in size which I think qualifies a large.    I believe this game is far too large for a Home directory which requires routine backups, is currently stored on a separate partition and communicates with 3D kernel mode drivers when run. 

Additionally I run a 3D test program which is approximately 300MiB in size and it has no difficulty being installed from a tc extension archive.

I just can't see how either program would benefit from being adapted to to run from Guix..

Offline mocore

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 05:28:20 AM »
I will try to make it this month if nobody do it before, because it could be easy with available binaries releases

i did try running the install for the binaries release , and i think it was working after some modification to the script ( wrt user creation ..the program names differ in TC afair , and installing some dependent programs )

i might have the notes some place , and nix and guix are on my ever-growing to do list

 tc methods has some advantages over them ( at least nix i have not much used guix), to note a few 0)simplicity ,1) tcz.list of package file's aka provides.db

but also to be fair nix/guix are not "just" a package manager but also a build system ...
( shout out to The ubiquitous lemur of doom! Muhahaha!!! and  associated from SCRATCH topic )


.. a build system ... much like some others that can be found in the "Programming & Scripting - Unofficial" section

eg : tc-ext-tools buildscripts , tce-make , and friends

the one advantage imho that nix/guix bring is larger / growing community creating / updating the packages 

...also in theory it should be possible to create a tcz package using nix/guix
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 05:37:50 AM by mocore »

Offline flavien

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Re: Request guix for TC9 x86
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 08:55:24 AM »

When I say big, i mean big/hard/or long to build and maintain. (Sorry for my poor english.)

@mocore : :D I totaly agree!

Quote
..the program names differ in TC afair , and installing some dependent programs

I'm not 100% sure, but theorically guix does not care about.
All is in /gnu/store + /usr/guix + /home/$USER and/or /root folders.
So you should (in theory) never get a clonflict!
When you build for NIX/GUIX, you potentialy build for all linux distributions (+ maybe for the non linux gnu hurd os).

Quote
...also in theory it should be possible to create a tcz package using nix/guix

Excelent !

Taking advantage of building guix system, then create tcz packages!
In GUIX isolation terms : /gnu/store and a lot of symlinks, not classic simple linux organisation, of course.
But why not?!  ;D

And even if you don't use GUIX to make TCZ, when a package is not now available in TCZ repo (like kodi 18-rc vs kodi 17), you can install and test the RC version from GUIX and wait for stable kodi 18 before trying to eventually get it in a beautiful TCZ light package! (less frequency work needed in making releases for TC contributors to get a full usable and flexible OS!) Isn't great ?!

After dCore, Guix Core ?  :P