WelcomeWelcome | FAQFAQ | DownloadsDownloads | WikiWiki

Author Topic: TCL/TK  (Read 6554 times)

Offline curaga

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10959
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 01:31:57 AM »
The entire 6.x armv6 repo is just 1.2gb. Perhaps someone close to you can burn you a dvd?
The only barriers that can stop you are the ones you create yourself.

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 01:51:09 AM »
We now have our own local network for testing.
Also got a Nas, so a local mirror will be added to the todo list

Just need to add learn mirroring to the list as well:)

Offline andyj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 02:30:18 PM »
On my dev RPi 2 I have 140+ extensions loaded including X, sound, ffmpeg, raspicam, compile-essentials and lots of dev-libs, Tcl/Tk, NFC, and my Wish app, and I have over 560 MB free. That's about as bloated as you can get and and I'm not even half full yet. Yes, Tcl/Tk has been around a while and people call me old for using it instead of the latest and greatest. But I've been using it for 17 years, and it was solid when I began. I can only think the developers have been working out whatever obscure bugs have been found since then (that I never saw). Apps ran as long as the computer had power. I don't ever remember a crash. I have the latest and greatest browsers running JS. Slackware is pretty solid, but I've never had an app or system crash that didn't involve a browser. You're right that it's the future, but the future isn't here yet. You have to ask yourself: Do you want to play with it or work with it?

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 06:27:07 PM »
How is the Pi 2 going as a dev platform?

Been thinking about using a Pi 2 as one.
And yep will probably end up with as many extensions as you.
I have found the Pi 2 with Raspbian or Ubuntu Mate as a little slow.
Want to eventually use the Pi2 for compiling C code, making tcz etc, but still got lots to learn yet.

On my IoT Pi's I normally only have mc, openssh, i2c-tools, busybox-httpd.
Recently added lua and luajit as they don't take up much room.
Micropython is pre installed in version 7.

Mostly use old 128MB sd cards and still have ~80MB free.
Easy then to make an image to stick on 4, 8,16GB SD's
Can you get class 10 2GB SD's?
Don't need much memory if I keep things small, for IoT boot time is important.
For instruments with GUIs can get away with a bit longer times.

Offline andyj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 08:04:37 PM »
The RPi 2 with make -j4 will compile a kernel and modules in under two hours. Builds like libraries and packages are just a few minutes, so the difference between doing a native compile on the RPi and a cross compile and transferring the files is usually a wash. It's fast enough for what I need for development. I don't know about SD card class versus actual speed. I haven't tested it. I'm curious about that myself, but not curious enough to buy a bunch of different cards and do the testing. Boot time is important to me too. I had do to a few unsanctioned tweaks involving custom kernels and overlayfs to get the time down, but I cut 20+ seconds off the boot time. All the cards I have are 8GB give or take, as that's about the sweet spot for Micro SD cards these days (a few dollars US each).

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 08:58:08 PM »
I tested rdp, windows remote desktop on a Raspbian Pi a few months back, it just worked.
No need to install anything on Windoze.

Thinking about setting up a few Pi's for compiling.
Not sure if tcz has rdp, does have rdesktop.tcz but that looks like client.

Do you compile Pi 1 ARM6 code on Pi 2?

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7183
    • My Community Forum
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 11:05:49 PM »
Few random notes on the discussion.

Next piCore7 alpha is built on the new BusyBox 1.24.0 with i2c tools which means it is part of base. Probably i2c-tools.tcz can be omitted depending on BusyBox version feature set and compatibility.

piCore itself and all tcz's except kernel built native on RPi2 for armv6 target. make -j4 works in most cases, but be careful, not all applications honor parallel build.

In my RPi2 dev system 502 extensions mounted, it takes 67 seconds (piCore7 logs time):

Code: [Select]
Deplist creation for 170 extensions ready: 0s
Mounting 502 extensions ready: 34s
ldconfig return value: 0
depmod return value: 0
Symlinking ready: 57s
Script finished: 67s

Further reduction of startup time is in progress.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 11:07:51 PM by bmarkus »
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 12:12:30 AM »
Thanks Bela,

Been waiting for busybox to add i2c-tools.
Hmm quite a lot of changes in busybox 1.24
One less tcz to worry about.
Will test it when next version 7 done.

Regards
Gavin

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7183
    • My Community Forum
Re: TCL/TK GUI
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2015, 02:20:38 AM »
What I am looking for is some way make GUI's outside of X11.
Starting to realise tk is X11 based I think.

Xorg is not only responsible for displaying but for input devices too. For example one recent experience is that using the official RPi 7" display without Xorg touch screen works uncalibrated, why with X it is just OK and sends back correct coordinates. Windowing is not an Xorg job but the WM (Window Manager). My advice to use Xorg always and do not waste time for handling displays low level.

Regarding GUI, you can choose Tcl/Tk, GTK, Qt, wxWIDGETS depending on goals. While to have a small size application is good, on the other hand SD cards are cheap. If you have a small size <1GB old card, it is most probably slow and maybe unrealible except some industrial grade.

Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."

Offline gavinmc42

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2015, 06:03:57 PM »
Thanks Bela,

My boss also told me off for wasting time on low level graphics :'(
X11 it will be, until something better comes along :P

Good point about the touch screen calibration.

Probably a good idea to try tcl/tk first as it has been around for a long time.
Tcl/tk only add 2+MB + X11?
Now need to figure out how to add x11 to the SSH release.
Really, really need to make a local mirror now.

Actually finding newer SD cards are less reliable, maybe got some dodgy chinese ones in the mix?
Following the ESA Pi's to see how they handle the extra radiation in space.
Wonder who's SD cards they will use.

Finding my old 128MB ones are rock solid, probably because of bigger die size.
Only got two and they will wear out eventually.

Not sure yet which is the best microSD cards, 8GB seem to be the optimum.
Still need to test whether class 4, 6 or 10 makes much difference, need to do some boot timing.
Don't trust 16GB+ cards yet, expensive  so they are good targets for counterfeiting.
OS goes on the SD card, data goes to external USB, so most of the writing to memory will be to the USB stick which is easy to swap/replace.

Actually have thought about making a PCB with something like SPI FRAM for booting.
Pretty sure the GPU boots from the SD card in SPI mode.

Regards
Gavin

Offline bmarkus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7183
    • My Community Forum
Re: TCL/TK
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2015, 10:30:30 PM »

Now need to figure out how to add x11 to the SSH release.


Install TC.tcz and its dependencies recursively.
Béla
Ham Radio callsign: HA5DI

"Amateur Radio: The First Technology-Based Social Network."