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Author Topic: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus  (Read 2142 times)

Offline newbody

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I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« on: March 18, 2012, 11:29:36 PM »
So sorry. I have really tried but I lack the brain resources to work it out.
I must start a blog or something and invite people to answer me there?
For it is obvious that most of you here get very annoyed when I fail to get it.

And I too easily get off topic for being able to ask things on this forum too.
I link to show.

I wrote something that lured several of us to go off topic here so I try to start a new thread about it.
http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,11855.msg70385.html#msg70385
Quote
NTFS did not get dropped!
Witness the ntfs extensions listed when using AppBrowser' Search ntfs
Use these to gain full access to NTFS drives after boot.

Also available is the initrd version ntfs-3g.gz here http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/contrib/

Add this to your boot loader to have immediate full access to NTFS.

---

The only thing that was dropped was an installation script that was attempting to modify XP boot loader. It was determined best not to try to modify XP NTFS boot loader. Note however one can use grub4dos to achieve this.

I answered like this due to not getting what the text says. Trying to explain why I trusted NTFS where deprecated.

Quote
Thanks RobertS.

I am so sorry. It is a well known fact that I fail to get the intentions
behind even well versed English. I did base my take on it from a
text that you wrote. http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php/topic,12164.msg65220.html#msg65220

Quote
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2011, 12:53:04 PM »

I don't want to deal with the installation of it anymore. XP is near end of life.
I have no desire to get Vista or Win7 or soon to be Win8. I tried my best to use grub4dos to be helpful for XP installs. But still some want nt boot loader mods and not grub4dos. That is too windows specific for me. I have not been a regular user of Windows since 2000. If anyone wants to take over the tcgrub4dos install program please feel free or the creation of an alternate install program. I have even contacted Svolli, a known master of NTFS, to see if he would want to take over the extension.  Otherwise I will be withdrawing that particular installation extension.



I did not understand the rest of the post
I did not dare to ask either because almost always one are referred to the documentation
and them are on a level I fail to understand. So what does it mean?

The old code that you RobertS  gave me:

Quote
title Tiny Core Linux
find --set-root /tce/boot/bzImage
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage quiet tce=hda1
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz

and that did work but trying it on the later versions don't remember which
then it failed and you told me the above.

But as I said I fail to get what people say. So seen from my poor reading
it does say you gave up on booting on NTFS. But that is my poor reading then?

So I need to find somebody that can explain how to get it going on my noob level.

So now re-reading the answer above makes me very unsure what it all means.
One take is that I misunderstood your word deprecated and that one can but
need to know how to do it and that the texts you write explain how

the only problem is that I fail to grasp what those texts say. I have no idea how
to get it going. A kind of Catch 22. Whatever I do now will only make you guys
even more annoyed because every time I ask something then the text from you
explain it on a level that is way above my head. A hopeless situation.

I really do like Core Plus but it seems too complicated for me on the level it get presented.

My bad not yours. I do realize none of you have promised that it should be able to be
understood on my low level. I only wish somebody could teach me how to without
making all the others annoyed reading it on that basic level. So maybe a PM to me
to not make people upset?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 12:55:28 AM »
I read the FAQ http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#menu
and have also looked in Wiki but I am a poor reader. Seems it worked for 3.7 or 4.0
even 4.1 but after 4.2 one most likely have to know much more to get it started.

I use these grub4dos menu.lst
Quote
title TC with desktop=flwm_topside
   kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz cde showapps desktop=flwm_topside
   initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz


title TC with JWM
   kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz cde showapps desktop=jwm
   initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz


title TC with flwm
   kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz cde showapps desktop=flwm
   initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz


all of them do boot and let me do sudo reboot and accept cd and ls but not startx
So I have to find some instruction to get the desktop going. I drown in all the text.
What am I supposed to do now?

I have booted on Acer D255 Which have a Atom N450 CPU double core.
HD is formatted to NTFS and I have downloaded the ntfs-3g.gz file and placed it in cde

should it be placed in boot instead?

I try to understand this text from RobertS too.
Quote
or if you only use Core (no X) or Xorg did not start and only have a system prompt use:
tce-audit builddb
tce-audit fetchmissing


Note: Xprogs.tcz has been updated and is now in the repository.

is that what I am supposed to write at the prompt?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 01:01:50 AM by newbody »
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 01:16:31 AM »
I tested two different isos.
CorePlus-4.4 and TinyCorePlus-4.4
I also tried to write that suggested at the prompt.

tce-audit builddb and it gave error that None such file or directory existed.
So what am I supposed to do to get a desktop?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline gutmensch

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 01:36:56 AM »
Heyho newbody!

Well ok, the Tiny Core development is in constant flux, that's why you maybe lost your desktop ;-) Let me try to make it clear:

1. Once there was a tinycore.gz, which basically included Xvesa.tcz, Xlibs.tcz, Xprogs.tcz, wbar.tcz, flwm_topside.tcz and fltk-1.10.tcz, so you had a complete desktop.
2. Now there is only core.gz, which doesn't include those files anymore because it's a logical step for a real modular OS.
3. To get a desktop again you have some options

a. In your working core.gz boot (where you only have a prompt), change the boot loader file (the one with kernel at start) to include something like tce=sda1 if the first partition of the first hdd has a supported filesystem (ext2/3/4 e.g.). You could even choose "waitusb=5 tce=sdb1" for a USB key. Reboot. Then download the desktop extensions like
Code: [Select]
tce-load -wi Xvesa Xlibs Xprogs wbar flwm_topside
This should be everything to get a working desktop again. If you only have Windows style partitions and filesystems it complicates everything a little and I would suggest to use some USB key first, which you can initialize with ext filesystem (like mkfs.ext2 -L CORE /dev/sdb1) to load the extensions at boot from this one (and then with the appr. kernel boot codes "waitusb=5 tce=sdb1").

b. You could also remaster, so you have one bigger mycore.gz, which already includes all the extensions you want to have at startup. For this you can for example use the ezremaster.tcz extension.

4. The tce-audit commands were meant to used when you've already got some installation of tce extensions in place on sda1 or sdb1 or wherever for the upgrading process from one version (e.g. 4.3) to another (e.g. 4.4), so they don't apply if you don't have any tce folder yet.
If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said. (Alan Greenspan)

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 02:19:24 AM »
Thanks gutmensch,

that makes sense indeed. So now I am in a big trouble.
I need to follow that for me too complicated instruction.

I sure have TCL 4.1 on a usb which work but would that really help
That one can not get updated to past 4.2 as I get it.

One need to start all over? That is why I am totally lost.
I would need an easy to follow instruction on how to
use Puppy linux or TCL 4.1 to manually place all needed files
on the /mnt/home in puppy on the NTFS and then follow that.

reading your description makes me into  a big question mark.

Much appreciated that you cared though but not sure how to proceed at all.
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 02:24:26 AM »
My current take on all this is that I need to get what RobertS write here
Quote
NTFS did not get dropped!
Witness the ntfs extensions listed when using AppBrowser' Search ntfs
Use these to gain full access to NTFS drives after boot.

Also available is the initrd version ntfs-3g.gz here http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/4.x/x86/contrib/

Add this to your boot loader to have immediate full access to NTFS.

The solution should be in that text if one get what he writes which I most likely don't do.
Sure I downloaded that ntfs-3g.gz file but have no idea what to do when having it.

especially this part? "Add this to your boot loader to have immediate full access to NTFS."

But even if I do that that does not give me a GUI desktop?
But maybe would allow me to install using the code you gave?
I should write this on the prompt
tce-load -wi Xvesa Xlibs Xprogs wbar flwm_topside

Would be easier for me to download these Xvesa Xlibs Xprogs wbar flwm_topside
using puppy and place them in /cde/options/ then they are already available if the
ntfs-3g.gx get loaded and active?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:37:24 AM by newbody »
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline gutmensch

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 03:02:04 AM »
The hint is absolutely correct. The idea of the ntfs-3g.gz is to unpack it directly from the boot loader to RAM so that Tiny Core can use the ntfs programs to rw mount a NT filesystem with your extensions, so basically what you could try is changing
Code: [Select]
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz
to something like
Code: [Select]
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz,(hd0,1)/boot/ntfs-3g.gz
or maybe
Code: [Select]
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz,ntfs-3g.gz
as I'm not sure grub4dos supports that loading of multiple initramfs' and of course put the ntfs-3g.gz file in the same place of core.gz! That should enable NTFS based tce folders. Now when you already have a tce folder on that specific NTFS hard drive and Tiny Core uses it (ls /etc/sysconfig/tcedir/optional/), then you should run the tce-audit commands to "re-setup" the extensions for the current Tiny Core release. It doesn't mean, you will not have a desktop before doing so. Some features have to be corrected and replaced in the extensions like Xvesa.tcz or Xprogs.tcz and that's what audit is for. But however, if you're switching from tinycore.gz to core.gz you will have to tce-load the mentioned extensions to get a desktop because they weren't needed before!
If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said. (Alan Greenspan)

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 03:17:48 AM »
Yes maybe I use wrong code there.

I am booted in coreplus now using your tce-load code so thanks indeed for that one.
I already had all or most of these in the /cde/optional already but had no know how
to make them be used. Now I have added firefox but all of this only exists in RAM now
because it says that sda2 can not be written to.

So most likely I have to activate the ntfs-3g.gz in some way.
Maybe use app browser to download it and install it in ram and
that maybe will allow me to make a backup and restore at least
so I can boot up to a working desktop without having to wait for the
tce-load all these files and firefox again.

So how do I activate ntfs now?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline gutmensch

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 03:29:48 AM »
Well, your boot loader config says you have the core.gz on your system hard disk on partition 1 in the boot/ folder. You have to put the ntfs-3g.gz file there  as well and change the boot loader config file as mentioned. It doesn't matter what extensions you load when you have booted - the problem is, that you really need ntfs-3g.gz and not any extension. NTFS access must be possible prior accessing the tce/ folder somewhere on your disk. If that's not the case, Tiny Core will only load core.gz and no extensions (regardless if you downloaded them to sda1 or sda2 or not).
If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said. (Alan Greenspan)

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2012, 03:33:23 AM »
Thanks, yes it says that TCE Fatal error when I try to dowload the ntfs-3g.gz using
app browser refuse to start it. So which of all these examples is most likely to work then ?
okay I will try all of them.
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline gutmensch

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2012, 03:38:37 AM »
Don't switch .gz and .tcz. Appbrowser only downloads and installs .tcz extensions. The .gz for ntfs rw support is an initramfs supposed to be loaded only at boot time. You have to download the mentioned special ntfs-3g.gz file manually and put it in place in sda1/boot/ e.g.
If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said. (Alan Greenspan)

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2012, 03:47:33 AM »
Quote
title CorePlus 4.4  desktop=jwm
kernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz  tce showapps desktop=flwm_topside showapps dmraid=on kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
initrd (hd0,1)/boot/core.gz /boot/ntfs-3g.gz

That worked well. It even gave me åäö so now I only need to get the backup/restore
and can remember what I download.

So thanks indeed. Much appreciated you cared to take time and to instruct me
on my noob level.

I am booted in coreplus 4.4 now and have rebooted using update restore.
One don't seems to need to have that word on the boot line it looks for it anyway.
Even firefox remember which local html file I have as internal start page.
So now I need to learn how to get Adobe Flash player and other such things going
VLC and Viewnior or Geekqie or whatever there is.

So once more Thanks for helping me out. I nearly gave up but with the leveled
instruction on my level then it where easy.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 04:23:06 AM by newbody »
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline gutmensch

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 02:14:59 AM »
Nice to hear and nice that you posted your grub4dos entry as well, it might help other users :) You're welcome new-buddy! ;-)
If I seem unduly clear to you, you must have misunderstood what I said. (Alan Greenspan)

Offline newbody

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Re: I am not intelligent enough to understand Core Plus
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2012, 05:02:44 AM »
Thanks to clarify I extracted the boot and the cde directory
and placed them on the /mnt/home partition using puppy linux.
Then I renamed cde to tce and I downloaded the ntf-3g.gz file
and placed it in boot directory. and changed the boot code
so it gets loaded at boot.

Heh I did not think of New Buddy I thought of Nobody and renamed
that one to newbody a play with words. I am true nobody.
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,