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Author Topic: Core v4.2rc3  (Read 5350 times)

Offline newbody

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2011, 06:17:53 AM »
Thanks Markus, I've read now your struggles with RC1
so I have much more to read before I get what one are supposed to do.

You give a good advice but I already have TCL 4.0 going on NTFS
on my Acer D250 Netbook so wanted to test the newest thing.

But I found this very important text by or from RobertS

Quote
...NTFS support is deprecated starting with 4.2
core.gz is not able to mount cde on NTFS to continue loading.

However. the cde directory should only reside on iso and not be copied to any hard drive. 
Adding the X/GUI extensions to where your normal TCE directory resides will solve your issue,
and is the expected location. This way individual updates to the X/GUI will occur as for any regular extension.

I fail to get this part
"Adding the X/GUI extensions to where your normal TCE directory resides will solve your issue, "

So typical of me I get the first part. NTFS support is deprecated starting with 4.2
The word deprecated? hm have to look up.
1. to express earnest disapproval of.
2. to urge reasons against; protest against (a scheme, purpose, etc.).
3. to depreciate; belittle.

So does that mean that it is impossible
or just looked down upon?
That one are on ones own. One should not ask in forum about it
or does it mean that it is impossible?
I would love that somebody who know how to do  tell how I get core
with a desktop going even on NTFS. 

Your "(go for a) stable TC 4.1 to play with and learn TC. Next go for NTFS"

To learn TC is impossible for me I am not on that level. I just want to use it.
But what you write here "Next go for NTFS " seems to contradict what RobertS told us.
That it can not boot on NTFS "NTFS support is deprecated starting with 4.2"
But deprecated maybe means discouraged but do work if one really want to?

so if you did get it going on frugal install on NTFS then I would love to know the
menu.lst code
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 06:34:44 AM by newbody »
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline bigpcman

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2011, 06:44:39 AM »
Finally I got it up and running from USB stick after many trials and discussing with Robert. The key point is, that you can't use the same partition for tce directory and cde. With other words it means, that single FAT partitioned setup is not supported, you need a second LINUX partition for tce. tce= boot option to this partition will create tce and its sub directories and will be found automatically at next boot.

There is one bug still, onboot.lst is not created automatically. If you create an empty onboot.lst in /tce with

sudo chmod 755 onboot.lst
sudo chown tc.staff onboot.lst

It appears to work as expected (aka as TC 4.1)



Very interesting outcome. Thanks for tracking this down. I wonder why the system must operate this way?
big pc man

Offline newbody

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2011, 07:04:56 AM »
Good that you remind me of that change.

So from version TCL 4.2 one need two partitions?
Even if using frugal install? Why was that needed.

I got so happy when RobertS included frugal install on NTFS
and a single partition too because I felt a renewed hope for
many Linux distros being usuable for us noobs.   So 4.1 is
the latest usable for us then? Will the repo include tcz files
for 4.1 then?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline floppy

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2011, 07:55:46 AM »
So if I get it at all which I am not sure of?

Quote
From the announcement post:
Quote
...
    TinyCore is simply the kernel + core.gz + Xvesa.tcz|Xorg.tcz + (user's choice of Window Manager) + (optionally wbar.tcz)

Obviously tcz extensions are located in the tce directory.


So should I download these then and put them in the core directory?

Xvesa.tcz
Xorg.tcz
Xprogs (is that  Xprogs.tcz ?)
Window Manager (okay I chose one? When does one do that?)
wbar.tcz

And Xprogs and Window Manager I can chose among those at the download list?

So would them get included automatically or does one call them from the prompt or what?
Put the files in the extension directory of your pc:
Xvesa.tcz OR Xorg7.4.tcz OR Xorg7.6.tcz
Xlibs.tcz
flwm-topside.tcz (one windows manager.. or fluxbox.tcz?)
Xprogs.tcz (or not.. in any case only from the testing 4.2rc3 directory)
wbar.tcz (or not)
fltk..tcz (see the file in the 4.2rc3 directory)

I would put these files names in an _42rc3.lst in the tce directory and boot with the code lst=_42rc3.lst
For the reason I never used ntfs and dont know this frugal environment, Im not sure where to put these all extensions files (create a /mnt/sdax/tc_ext/ and ../optional/ where the ..lst is in the tc_ext and all extensions are in the ../optional/ ? just a guess).
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Offline newbody

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2011, 08:09:52 AM »
Thanks floppy, I am booted in TCL 4.1 Stable now and it accepted the files
from 4.0 so that was a good thing indeed.

Thanks for the description. I have to read it again and again because
I am not so good structured things. Very good advices and much appreciated
you took time to help me out.

Now all depends on two things. What the word "deprecated" really means.
Does it means impossible even with nfs-3g.tcz or just discouraged to avoid
that people ask about it on the forum. Does it mean that it works very well but
that RobertS and the team don't want questions about it on the forum so that one
are on ones own and get no help but that it do work as good as in 4.1 which
my post show due to I am able to write this.

Or is core so changed that it is totally impossible to boot?
What would be needed
then to get it to boot apart from formatting a partition or using USB? For how long will
TCL 4.1 be supported with repo?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline Rich

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2011, 08:11:58 AM »
Hi newbody
Quote
The word deprecated? hm have to look up.
Here is my definition:
Code: [Select]
Deprecated - A term used to describe something that is considered obsolete and will no
longer be supported or available.

Offline newbody

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2011, 08:18:09 AM »
Hi newbody
Quote
The word deprecated? hm have to look up.
Here is my definition:
Code: [Select]
Deprecated - A term used to describe something that is considered obsolete and will no
longer be supported or available.

Thanks Rich

But that still to me not being a native speaker does mean that it do work if one stand the disapproval
that it do work if somebody tell how to do it but that it is not supported in that one should not expect
to get official help but maybe would get help from otehrs who also ahve NTFS HD and still love TCL
for it's unique approach and not want to give up on it?

Do you remember if somebody has written that them do boot Core 4.2RC3 on NTFS?
It works so well now when I am in 4.1 so can I not borrow files from 4.1?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline floppy

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2011, 08:45:09 AM »

Does it means impossible even with nfs-3g.tcz or just discouraged to avoid
that people ask about it on the forum. Does it mean that it works very well but
that RobertS and the team don't want questions about it on the forum so that one
are on ones own and get no help but that it do work as good as in 4.1 which
my post show due to I am able to write this.

Or is core so changed that it is totally impossible to boot?
What would be needed
then to get it to boot apart from formatting a partition or using USB? For how long will
TCL 4.1 be supported with repo?
I personally dont participate for a discussion of NTFS or not: one time, I helped a colleague for installing TCL on a lenovo netbook with a hdd with ntfs/FAT partitions.
a) we created a linux boot partition for TCL 1GB if I remember (with gparted from tcl on usb)
b) a FAT32 partition for exchanging files between XP/Linux
So, we implemented a multiboot XP/Linux with grub4dos. No need for TCL on ntfs (so, no reson for me to push here..). 

A usb is a very clean thing: since you create one (or a sd card on an usb adapter), you can carry your usb (or your sd card) anywhere in the world and boot any (nearly) computer with it! (and your pc)
example: ff somebody is at work and want to read its private mails in the lunch time, it can reboot its pc with the USB (and tcl on it) and connect via usb modem to the net (not via the company network).
The same in internet cafe if the owner accept it.
Or one time I was in a computer shop here in Germany: I wanted to see the internet prices for a samsung N150. I changed the bios setup of the samsung N150 netbook. I booted it with the usb stick. I goes into the internet via my usb modem and could see the internet prices of it (5 minutes for it). Nobody asked for something in the big shop. Nobody complained. I used a shop PC to compare prices.
So, as per bmarkus advice, make a usb.. you will have no regrets.
Personally, I often boot the ubuntu 10.04 notebook from my wife with a tcl on SD card. Its much quicker.

But, why not, I understand you would like to migrate your tcl/nfts system with only few efforts.
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Offline roberts

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 09:06:15 AM »
This statement by bmarkus
Quote
Finally I got it up and running from USB stick after many trials and discussing with Robert. The key point is, that you can't use the same partition for tce directory and cde. With other words it means, that single FAT partitioned setup is not supported, you need a second LINUX partition for tce. tce= boot option to this partition will create tce and its sub directories and will be found automatically at next boot.
Indicates a mis-understanding is still present.

You can have a single FAT partition on a USB boot with boot files and tce dir. Just use the tc-install program as provided on CorePlus

On the other hand using third party installation tools is not and cannnot be automatic.

bmarkus insteads chooses to use unetbootin. Obviously unetbootin does not "know" about our distribution, i.e., not listed in the drop choices. Therefore using unetbootin simply copies the entire iso to target.

Obviously on a cdrom we cannot have a tce dir. It would be READ_ONLY and nothing would work insofar as adding extensions. That is why there is a cde directory in the iso! It is also a fact that one cannot have two tce directores in the same partition. Nothing new about that,

It should be obvious that one can use the TinyCore CD or the CorePlus CD READ_ONLY devices to process and access any tce directory on a writable store, i.e., works as expected.

Therefore if one insists on using a third party installation tool and one that does not officially support Core and thereby copies the entirety of the TinyCore iso then you are faced with manual setup of either creating a second partition for your tce dir, or renaming the cde to tce thus indicating that this is not a CD and editing the syslinux.cfg changing cde to waitusb=5 to indicate that is a pendrive.

Then all works as expected.

It is not recommended to have a cde directory on any live working system. The whole point of modularity is the ability to easily upgrade the X/GUI extension separate from the base Core. As witnessed by my recent reposts of Xlibs and Xprogs individually.

Therefore in the case of unetbootin renaming cde to tce is recommended.

Of course it is highly recommended to use CorePlus, much work has gone into this to make an easy and effortless installation with whatever window manager you prefer.
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Offline newbody

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 09:15:53 AM »
floppy I am not here to talk NTFS at all. I hate it too.
I am here to get TCL 4.2RC3 booting and working
on a computer that happen to have NTFS on it and
TCL 4.1 does boot from NTFS so I wanted to know
how do I get this new one to boot despite it is discouraged.

I do have a nfs-3g.tcz that allow that to happen in 4.1 and
some few versions back? 4.0 and maybe even older???

So RobertS does deprecated mean physically and software
impossible or just that you don't want to deal with it anymore.

Can I not borrow files from 4.1 to get it going on 4.2?
Acer D250, Snow Puppy, TinyCore and on HP SR5622, Snow Puppy,

Offline Lee

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2011, 09:45:10 AM »
I'm using 4.2rc3 in much the same way as I used all the previous versions - on a USB stick (*) that already has grub4dos on it with the "distribution files" for both tiny core and micro core grabbed from the repo - so I haven't had occasion to try any installation method other than just updating menu.lst.  But I have been following the discussion in this thread and I find that roberts' latest post really cleared things up for me - I may have missed some bits earlier but some of that info was not obvious (or not remembered) before.

If I understand it correctly now, you -can- have a cde directory on media other than a CD but that's not really the point of it and...

You cannot have a cde directory and a tce directory on the same partition.


By the way - 42rc3 is working very well for me in day-to-day tasks.

(*) I'd have sworn that USB stick was still formatted FAT but it turns out to be ext2 - I guess it -has- been a while since I looked at it on a Windows box!
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Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »
Quote
Obviously unetbootin does not "know" about our distribution, i.e., not listed in the drop choices. Therefore using unetbootin simply copies the entire iso to target.
Additionally I'd like to add that unetbootin doesn't allays copy structures it's not familiar with, at least this has been our experience.  However if creating a USB thumbdrive from a windows pc the Universal Pendrivelinux will preserve all functionality when selecting the other Linux option (one of the last entries in the list of distro's).



 

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2011, 12:36:30 PM »
Quote
It should be obvious that one can use the TinyCore CD or the CorePlus CD READ_ONLY devices to process and access any tce directory on a writable store, i.e., works as expected.

This feature works reliably. Maybe I should not have been surprised to find extensions loaded from a hdd installed tce directory when booting from an ISO, works great and works consistently.

Offline coreplayer2

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2011, 12:41:24 PM »
Quote
There is one bug still, onboot.lst is not created automatically. If you create an empty onboot.lst in /tce with

Thanks for the heads up, I thought the unusual behavior was a result of something I did wrong, i've been adding missing entries manually, meaning this anomaly is not consistent however exists in my installs.

Offline roberts

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Re: Core v4.2rc3
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2011, 12:53:04 PM »
floppy I am not here to talk NTFS at all. I hate it too.
I am here to get TCL 4.2RC3 booting and working
on a computer that happen to have NTFS on it and
TCL 4.1 does boot from NTFS so I wanted to know
how do I get this new one to boot despite it is discouraged.

I do have a nfs-3g.tcz that allow that to happen in 4.1 and
some few versions back? 4.0 and maybe even older???

So RobertS does deprecated mean physically and software
impossible or just that you don't want to deal with it anymore.

Can I not borrow files from 4.1 to get it going on 4.2?
I don't want to deal with the installation of it anymore. XP is near end of life.
I have no desire to get Vista or Win7 or soon to be Win8. I tried my best to use grub4dos to be helpful for XP installs. But still some want nt boot loader mods and not grub4dos. That is too windows specific for me. I have not been a regular user of Windows since 2000. If anyone wants to take over the tcgrub4dos install program please feel free or the creation of an alternate install program. I have even contacted Svolli, a known master of NTFS, to see if he would want to take over the extension.  Otherwise I will be withdrawing that particular installation extension.

While I am not purposefully trying to cripple existing NTFS installations of Core. I did find an anomaly which I will correct before final release of 4.2.

Still it will mean manual setup:
1. Copying of X/GUI extensions into existing tce directory.
2. Add them to the beginning of the existing onboot.lst.
3. Copying the core.gz to replace tinycore.gz.
4. And finally adjusting the boot loader, menu.lst, if using grub4dos, to load core.gz instead of tinycore.gz.
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