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Author Topic: tinycore_v3.8rc2  (Read 7950 times)

Offline andrewb

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2011, 11:16:53 PM »
Just a thought  as wbar updates are mentioned...

Could wbar be made suitable for swallowing in a JWM tray? For netbooks this would be a bonus

Offline maro

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2011, 06:45:20 PM »
As 'time-nw.nist.gov' appears to have been AWOL now for a while (i.e. no response even with a 'ping') I'd like to suggest to change 'usr/bin/getTime.sh' to use 'time.nist.gov' instead.

Offline danielibarnes

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2011, 06:52:02 PM »
As 'time-nw.nist.gov' appears to have been AWOL now for a while (i.e. no response even with a 'ping') I'd like to suggest to change 'usr/bin/getTime.sh' to use 'time.nist.gov' instead.

Why not pool.ntp.org?

Offline vitex

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2011, 07:46:30 PM »
As 'time-nw.nist.gov' appears to have been AWOL now for a while (i.e. no response even with a 'ping') I'd like to suggest to change 'usr/bin/getTime.sh' to use 'time.nist.gov' instead.

Why not pool.ntp.org?

getTime.sh uses Daytime Protocol (RFC-867), not Network Time Protocol (RFC-1305). 

Note that http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi recommends using neither time-nw.nist.gov nor time.nist.gov.

Offline uggla

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 12:00:33 AM »
I'm unable to mount any dvd if a disc was in the player during boot. Mounting dvds works if player was empty during boot.

I'm running mc with xorg 7.5.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 05:46:44 AM by uggla »

Offline TheNewbie

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 03:07:22 AM »
About the busybox applet removals -- TC is approximately 10 MB total, and I, personally, feel that any functionality loss isn't worth a gain of 11 KB of more space. Considering 10 MB is over 10000 KB, 11 KB is, what, 0.1% of the total size? Just IMHO, of course -- if the team feels otherwise, it's obviously not my decision to make. =P

Offline Rich

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2011, 08:51:10 AM »
Hi TheNewbie
Quote
Considering 10 MB is over 10000 KB, 11 KB is, what, 0.1% of the total size?
That is same the narrow minded thinking the U.S. government uses to rationalize spending, you might
want to take a look at how that is working out.
Luckily, roberts takes the time to try to balance the size of Tinycore against what will benefit the most
users. The decisions that he makes are not to please everyone, they are to provide you with a lean
core for an operating system so that you as the end user can customize it to your personal needs
by adding the functions and niceties desired through the use of extensions.
It is because roberts pays attention to the size of a function that Tinycore can maintain it's roughly
10MB footprint instead of growing out of control.

Offline TheNewbie

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2011, 02:33:03 PM »
Hi TheNewbie
Quote
Considering 10 MB is over 10000 KB, 11 KB is, what, 0.1% of the total size?
That is same the narrow minded thinking the U.S. government uses to rationalize spending, you might
want to take a look at how that is working out.

Luckily, roberts takes the time to try to balance the size of Tinycore against what will benefit the most
users. The decisions that he makes are not to please everyone, they are to provide you with a lean
core for an operating system so that you as the end user can customize it to your personal needs
by adding the functions and niceties desired through the use of extensions.

It is because roberts pays attention to the size of a function that Tinycore can maintain it's roughly
10MB footprint instead of growing out of control.

The issue with that is the US govt. has reason to rationalize spending, because it's debt is in the trillions -- it shouldn't have any spending, period.

I realize that perhaps the team might decide that those 11KB of whatever features are useless. When you've fit the entire OS into 10 MB (2 MB of which is just in the kernel), though, cutting back features without needing that space for others might be too much. Like I said, this is IMHO, I'm not trying to impose it on the team.

Offline maro

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2011, 04:44:08 PM »
Note that http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi recommends using neither time-nw.nist.gov nor time.nist.gov.

This might be true, but if they can't even update their page to show that 'time-nw.nist.gov' is unavailable (since quite some weeks now) I wonder how much we can trust their recommendations at all.

OTHO there will be only few TC users which are using this command, and I'd bet very few are running this on a regular basis (e.g. via 'cron'). I for one only need it if I have a TC system running in a VM were the host (e.g. WinXP in my case) gets hibernated over night and I want to sync up the time in the VM again. That creates typically one request from me per day. So I can't see that changing the server to 'time.nist.gov' in TC will put an undue burden on that server. I assume their recommendation is more targeting the users of frequently syncing services (e.g. NTP).

In the end don't care what server receives the "massive hit" that the TC users will jointly create. I just want that the command starts working again without having to remember every time that Microsoft (who "owns" 131.107.13.100) can't keep their house in order and I therefore have to use something like getTime.sh time.nist.gov (instead of getTime.sh).


Offline vitex

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2011, 07:56:00 PM »

In the end don't care what server receives the "massive hit" that the TC users will jointly create. I just want that the command starts working again without having to remember every time that Microsoft (who "owns" 131.107.13.100) can't keep their house in order and I therefore have to use something like getTime.sh time.nist.gov (instead of getTime.sh).


The "All services busy, not recommended" comment about time.nist.gov is there for a reason:

Code: [Select]
$ date +%s ; nc time.nist.gov 13 ; date +%s
1311218229
time.nist.gov [192.43.244.18] 13 (daytime) : Connection timed out
1311218250

$ date +%s ; nc time.nist.gov 13 ; date +%s
1311218272

55763 11-07-21 03:17:54 50 0 0 522.3 UTC(NIST) *
1311218273

$ date +%s ; nc time.nist.gov 13 ; date +%s
1311218284
time.nist.gov [192.43.244.18] 13 (daytime) : Connection timed out
1311218305
 

NIST is warning that that server (among others) is already so overloaded that it is not dependable. 

The server wwv.nist.gov seems to be a more reliable choice for a Daytime server.  (An NTP-based solution would be even better if you can afford a bit more RAM.  Chrony uses multiple pool.ntp.org servers and requires no user configuration.)

Offline roberts

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2011, 01:28:27 PM »
As 'time-nw.nist.gov' appears to have been AWOL now for a while (i.e. no response even with a 'ping') I'd like to suggest to change 'usr/bin/getTime.sh' to use 'time.nist.gov' instead.
Updated getTime.sh to use time.nist.gov
10+ Years Contributing to Linux Open Source Projects.

Offline vitex

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2011, 04:04:16 PM »

Updated getTime.sh to use time.nist.gov

The overloaded server time.nist.gov is not a good choice; it sometimes times out and fails to set the clock.

The following results show the response times for 5 consecutive requests made at 10-second intervals:

Code: [Select]
$ while true ; do echo ; time getTime.sh -p time.nist.gov ; sleep 10 ; done

Fri Jul 22 23:17:51 UTC 2011
real 0m 21.20s
user 0m 0.00s
sys 0m 0.08s

2011-07-22 23:18:02 UTC(NIST)
Fri Jul 22 23:18:02 UTC 2011
real 0m 0.30s
user 0m 0.04s
sys 0m 0.14s

2011-07-22 23:18:16 UTC(NIST)
Fri Jul 22 23:18:16 UTC 2011
real 0m 3.34s
user 0m 0.02s
sys 0m 0.20s

2011-07-22 23:18:35 UTC(NIST)
Fri Jul 22 23:18:35 UTC 2011
real 0m 9.41s
user 0m 0.05s
sys 0m 0.22s

2011-07-22 23:18:46 UTC(NIST)
Fri Jul 22 23:18:46 UTC 2011
real 0m 0.22s
user 0m 0.01s
sys 0m 0.10s

The first request timed out after 21.20 seconds without retrieving the information needed to set the local clock; calling getTime.sh to set the clock would have failed. (I have seen four consecutive 10-second requests to that server fail.)

The four other requests to time.nist.gov returned useful information after 0.30, 3.24, 9.41, and 0.22 seconds. 

The server wwv.nist.gov does not seem to be overloaded.  I have never seen it fail to return information, although I have seen a few requests take as long as 3 seconds. 

Offline maro

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2011, 05:20:45 PM »
vitex: I appreciate that your observations reflect your particular situation, but please be aware that this does not need to be the case for all other users.

Repeating your test from here I never had a timeout from 'time.nist.gov' (or 'wwv.nist.gov') and the response time from either one of them tends to be in the 1-3 seconds range.

I'm not objecting to any choice that Robert picks up in the end to fix 'getTime.sh', I just think the measurements of a single user that might be poorly served by one particular ISP (and/or the routing used by this ISP) might skew the picture ever so slightly.

BTW, I'm sorry that a minor request I added here has lead this thread to get a bit OT.

Offline meo

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2011, 03:23:10 AM »
Hi Team TC!  ;)

Very nice work with the new TC 2.8rc2. I really like the new icons. Usually I have been booting with the "noicons" option. Now in this release I don't use it. So thanks for a good job!!!

Have fun continuing the development TC,
meo
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Online bmarkus

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Re: tinycore_v3.8rc2
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2011, 11:17:14 PM »
I see cases when OnBoot extension seems to be loaded. It is in /usr/local/tce.installed and loop mounted, its contents is in /tmp/tcloop/... However, it is not symlinked to its destination in /usr/local so doesn't available.

Béla
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